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Concluding Questions | Mission Musings

November 11, 2021 by fpcspiritlake

Mission Musings
Mission Musings
Concluding Questions | Mission Musings
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In this series conclusion, Pastors Clint and Michael explore the many questions left behind by the missional conversation, especially how these conversations become practical in the life and practice within a church. Be sure to stay tuned to the end for when the Pastors make predictions as to what challenges and strategies that future generations of the Church might engage in their efforts to be faithful to the Gospel. Though this series raises far more questions than it answers, we sincerely hope that it sparks a generative conversation about the nature of the church and our own identities as followers of Jesus Christ.

Be sure to share this with anyone who you think might be interested in rediscovering a missional Christian identity with us.

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Pastor Talk is a ministry of First Presbyterian Church in Spirit Lake, IA.

    Hello friends and welcome back to the pastor talk podcast.
    We are now concluding our
    Mission musings series.
    We’ve been blessed in the last couple weeks.
    We got to share conversations with I’m God beb Lowry and with dr
    Daryl gooter each of them offering different advantages perspectives on this missional conversation and today
    As we now come to both kind of wrap up those conversations
    We simultaneously are wrapping up the larger conversation about what it means to be missional and
    one of the struggles of
    Attempting to do that and this just comes by way of confession from the very start is that in many ways this conversation?
    I think raises more questions than it answers it in some ways helps hone
    And frame what questions are the right questions?
    It doesn’t necessarily make answering those questions easy or I would even go so far as to say possible
    And so I got to confess you we’re not going to come with a nice summary bow
    We’re not going to wrap this all up and and it feel like it’s been resolved.
    That’s not the intention
    We’re in some ways going to just confess
    This leads us to ask what next and I hope that you find yourself invited into that conversation because ultimately
    If there’s any case we’ve made throughout this series
    I hope one of the things you’ve heard is is that you’re invited to this missional identity.
    And so it’s Natural then or it just follows that all of us might be left in these concluding
    Conversations to ask well,
    where am I and what does this mean for me?
    And if that’s you you’re in exactly the right place and and I hope you sense that you’re surrounded by good partners in that
    I think you’re exactly right.
    Michael.
    I think one of the struggles is that missional isn’t
    A conclusion.
    It’s not a repair.
    It’s a kind of
    Corrective it’s a series of questions and thoughts and interactions
    That help lead us
    To some new ideas some new ways of processing some new questions
    To ask in response to the first round of questions and draws us deeper
    into the idea
    Of what it means to pursue god’s mission,
    but it’s not something that can be easily summarized
    In fact, I I would caution that if anyone thinks that it’s possible
    Maybe they have not fully understood
    The depth and breadth of the conversation there there are things calling themselves
    Missional that are packaged as programs and quick fixes and and I would say they miss the point
    Completely in my experience
    This is the challenge to evaluate where we are
    To think about how we got there and to think about whether where we are is where we need to be
    It’s just part of our ongoing evaluation of what it means to follow.
    Jesus christ and as such
    this is not the kind of series we come out of with
    A B and C and what it means for you and for the church it is much more complex than that
    But really the intention isn’t to give us easy answers.
    It is to put the idea of mission
    as who we are
    Back on the center of the plate for us to consider
    Yeah,
    we can pick out a few
    themes that have
    Gone through our conversations and I certainly think that one of those themes
    Is that mission is not checks that we write but rather an identity that is formed in jesus christ and
    That particular theme applies both to congregations and it applies to us as individuals
    To some extent I think our conversation with om god shows that it’s also complicated if you’re trying to envision what that means
    In the large connectional church sense church with a capital c the church that extends around the world to have a missional
    identity in the midst of cultural differences
    And geopolitical realities all of this is incredibly complicated nuance.
    It’s not clear
    which
    Road one needs to take and and necessarily even
    What side of the road or which you know forks the road will take it’s far more nuanced than that yet
    It is clear that if we think of mission and our part in mission is only
    A thing that we export outside of our own
    Circles that we’ve missed the full breadth of who we’re called to be as those who’ve received the good news and I think
    Dr.
    Guder’s conversation if i’m gonna be honest about the biblical interpretation and some of the really sustained conversations about that clint
    One of the things that that reminded me of in my time with him in class was
    How often he returned to this idea that we need to come back to the scriptures asking?
    Not just what do they mean?
    In their original context,
    but rather what do they mean as they seek to form us as people in the faith and and that move
    away from the scriptures as a
    Thing external to us that we learn that we get in our minds
    To the idea of the scriptures as a place where we are formed
    As those who understand the good news of jesus christ and how it transforms our life that kind of shift
    Is substantial and if that alone is what you get out of the missional conversation?
    It will have been worth the price of admission.
    I think
    It’s really challenging to ask those questions
    from in
    from in the midst
    Of our context.
    Um, I once heard a pastor
    Try to get at this idea by saying how could you talk to a fish about what it means to be wet?
    And and if you think about that idea that culture is the water we swim in
    It becomes very hard for us to question some of the basic assumptions of how we’ve learned christianity
    In the western world for instance, there are maybe
    Let’s say 50 of dickens county and i’m making that number up michael,
    but let’s say there are 7 500 christians
    In dickenson county.
    There are
    20 church buildings right and none of us question that assumption
    We simply take it for granted as a fact of western christianity american christianity
    That if you want to be christian
    You go to a place you go to a building in fact not just a building
    But one of 20 buildings in our case and you pick the kind of christianity that works for you
    What’s helpful in this larger conversation is that we’re learning there are
    People of faith in other parts of the world who have different assumptions and it helps us to back up and to say wait a minute
    There must be ways to be christian without a building
    Having a building may not be as important as we thought that it was historically
    Having a building may have some very very deep
    Upsides, but it may have some downsides because it makes us think of our faith as a thing that happens in a place
    And we think of mission as people things that people do in a different place
    And and we don’t always make this bridge between when we support those people
    We are doing mission as well and the the complexity of it is sometimes lost when we aren’t able
    To question our assumptions,
    which is hard to do from the midst of them.
    And I think one of the
    real benefits
    Potentially in the future is that this missional conversation
    Is global it’s multinational
    And it involves people who have very different perspectives getting together and saying
    What does not only what does the gospel look like where you live?
    But what does the gospel say?
    To where you live and how you live out the faith that may be challenging if you have been
    part of all of these conversations up to this point this may sound
    Of repetitive and I apologize for that
    But I think it being repeated is necessary to emphasize how important it is Is that fundamentally?
    Don’t make the mistake do not make the mistake of thinking
    That missional is some sort of marketing program that’s going to help churches that are struggling
    Suddenly succeed like it’s the magic key that fixes all of the problems.
    It is not that it is not a
    Book that can be written and put on your bookshelf that will contain the answers
    The reality is if we’re honest,
    we live in a context,
    especially The mainline church in the united states
    That is struggling and I would say it’s not an exaggeration to say in many ways in many places
    Collapsing the institutions that were used to the privilege that we have taken for granted
    The sort of public voice that we’ve always expected that we should and could have is no longer relevant and to whatever extent that we
    Both are aware of that and to whatever extent it is true
    The missional conversation does not fix those problems rather
    It gives us an invitation to consider that what may seem to us to be
    Nothing other than sheer grief and collapse and destruction can unto itself be actually an invitation
    To a new way of understanding ourselves in the faith and that is not easy
    I’m not going to pretend that that is going to be met with celebration
    There are times in which really we just need to be honest and say things are not going well
    The missional conversation doesn’t keep that reality for being reality what it does though
    And you said this in a previous conversation clinton
    I think very helpfully is that it does give us the opportunity
    To choose to see what is happening around us both because of
    Choices we’ve made and things happening in culture and we can choose for that to be an opportunity
    For us to grow in our faithfulness
    There is this real sense in the church right now that what is happening to us is happening to us
    And that we have nothing that we can do the missional conversation.
    I think invites us to ask
    What can we do as faithful disciples of jesus christ?
    We don’t need christenedom in order to be faithful
    So then what is necessary and that question is empowering if not sometimes incredibly difficult
    I would take that even maybe one step further michael and say that not only
    does engaging in the conversation and the struggle to determine our
    Missional identity not fix our problems.
    It probably brings us some new ones
    It probably makes some things even harder
    We have to ask some very difficult questions about where we are and how we got here and whether
    Our way of living out the church is in fact the most faithful way that we can be doing that and
    Because we are fallen people that answer will always be no
    And that’s a frightening thing when we look at the church as we’ve known it
    The church that we’ve been married in and baptized children in and buried loved ones in and and have to admit
    There are some places we’re missing
    We’re there are some places we’re getting it wrong.
    There are some things
    in the scripture
    That we haven’t heard
    With the kind of sensitivity we need to there are some ways that we haven’t partnered with others
    There are some ways that we’ve accepted division.
    There are some ways that we’ve
    bowed down as dr.
    Guder mentioned last week to
    Wealth and political power and the idea of control
    And they’ve heard us they’ve heard our witness
    They’ve heard our practice of the faith and we have to come to terms with that in order that we might be
    increasingly set more and more free to pursue what is our true mission which
    is whatever god lays in front of us and calls us to do in those moments and
    That is a journey that that’s not something we get to in a meeting.
    That’s a lifetime
    worth of humble and prayerful
    Confession and worship and seeking to be faithful and
    It is exciting.
    It’s frightening.
    It can be scary.
    I think to
    To untether yourself from some of what you think of as your anchors, but it is
    Freeing and the only way that you perhaps catch the current to a new place when I was young I used to
    find jesus’s
    Invitation he said, you know take my yoke
    as it is
    light and
    I always took that as an invitation to like oh great
    I get to throw away all of my anxiety like like it would be easy to let go of the weights that hold us down and
    I think as as i’ve experienced more of life i’ve discovered how hard it is
    To let go of the things that we’ve been carrying because in reality
    We’re carrying it because at some point we decided it was worth carrying
    we decided that for whatever reason this grudge or
    This poor self image or this commitment to this particular way of living we decide that this was necessary
    And so that’s why we strapped it on our back
    And so when jesus invites us to let go of the things that burden us to carry his cross
    Part of the struggle is yes accepting a burden that’s different than our own with different values
    With a different call and a different vocation and identity in the world in which we live that is of course a struggle
    But I think I underestimated in my youth the real struggle of letting go
    Of the things that we have claimed for ourselves and that is certainly true as it applies to missional theology at some point
    Missional theology calls us to take a hard appraisal of what
    Has come to be the most important thing for us and as we make that honest appraisal
    There are going to be some things we have to let go of whether that be practices in our church fellowship
    Whether that be our commitments that we have made that we must support this particular
    mission or program
    whether that be
    That we need to only read this one translation of the Bible
    It could go in a thousand different directions wherever we have decided that this is a thing that needs to be
    Missional theology is going to ask us have we reframed the conversation of faith to be about us?
    And have we therefore lost the central message of the gospel,
    which is to be witnesses
    lights
    image bearers Ambassadors the new testament is chock full of these images
    Are we those people reflecting to the world the truth of something that is not ours to possess?
    Right,
    and if that is true then to whatever extent it’s true
    It’s both by the grace of God and also it’s a reflection of that work that’s been done to us and for us
    And that’s what missional theology.
    I think at its heart is trying to instill within us It’s very
    interesting michael what that brings to mind is
    The kind of comparison that in some sense
    What we might be able to see at the congregational level is an example of what may happen
    at a global or
    church-wide
    Scale in the coming years and here’s what I mean by that.
    So in the church
    We begin doing something we
    Start for good reason we say we want to educate kids and so we start doing
    Sunday school and it’s a certain way or we do vacation bible school and we do that as a
    Pattern we do it for a while and then we become wedded to the thing we do
    Instead of the reasons that we started doing it.
    And so then the thing itself
    Becomes a kind of symbol and and at worst,
    maybe we could even use the word idle
    For what the church’s mission and ministry is when the reality is it’s that intention behind it that matters most
    So when it’s time to stop doing vbs
    You have people who say we have to do vbs
    No, we have to try and educate children.
    We have to try and teach children the gospel
    We don’t have to do that with vbs.
    That’s how we’ve done it in the past
    It may or may not be the best way to continue to do it
    But the task is not vbs
    Vbs was the tool we used to try and do the task and the question before us is
    Is it still the best tool or is it not and if it’s not let’s find a new tool
    But it’s it’s not the thing that we have to continue
    It’s the reason that the thing existed and in my experience in the congregation
    One of the most painful struggles is when those tools lose their effectiveness
    To put them down to put them away to say it that thing served its life cycle
    It did really well in its day
    But it’s now not working and it’s time to do something else and I find that we are overly connected and committed
    To the tool that we built
    Rather than motivated by the the task behind the tool.
    I don’t know if that makes sense
    I hope that it does,
    but I think in a small way we see that that happens in congregations.
    That’s happening
    Globally particularly in the western world where we feel like we’re losing
    The most or perhaps we find that the tools that have used
    That we’ve used successfully in the past right seem less
    Um
    Effective now than they did and so we have this repeated experience of going back and saying
    Gosh, I love that tool
    I want to keep using it and it just isn’t working the same and I and I think
    At some level we see the bigger picture in that small version of it.
    So clint.
    I think that raises
    Two things for me that I think have been consistent themes in these conversations.
    The first is
    Wherever there is missional theology.
    It is likely that the task is difficult
    And that is a really tough thing
    To not just get your mind around i’m not sure that intellectually it’s that difficult
    I think it’s spiritually hard to recognize that fundamentally what that means is we can no longer rest upon
    How we have always done it
    and that is Just a natural part of our human experience of the world.
    We’re so used to that as the model
    How did we do it?
    Let’s do it again
    If we had run a program or if we had a ministry that looked a particular way it needs to continue
    I’m not going to lie to you.
    It is
    Unbelievably difficult work as a community
    To return to those first order questions about how are we living into the goal that we began this thing with that takes work
    It takes extra work
    It’s not just like we need to get a volunteer or we need to fundraise for this it
    It requires sitting down with blank pages and asking the question if we were to do it again
    Would we do it the same way and would it meet the same goal that we started with that?
    Is a challenging kind of work that that over time?
    Does feel like you’re really pushing a rock up a hill and you’re hoping it doesn’t come back down on you
    But that is part of what I think it means to be missional and I think the second thing that your comment raises clint is
    unfortunately
    This is unbelievably hard
    To speak clearly and simply as we define it in congregational life and we’ve said this before
    If if you ask the question,
    what is missional for a congregation?
    I would love to tell you that I have a simple concrete example of this is what it is in every context
    But I don’t think that’s true.
    I think that fundamentally
    The missional conversation invites us to come into our own context.
    Whatever it is Here where the congregation in spirit lake, iowa northwest,
    iowa midwest That’s going to look different in new york city or in texas or in california or in portugal or in
    France or in asia right as these
    Conversations disseminate around the world what I think we will discover
    Is that fundamentally we’re called to be faithful in the place where we’ve been put and and that we are called to ask
    Questions humbly and bravely and if we ask them in faith
    God will inevitably answer them not by our merit but by the grace of the spirit and
    That’s the trust that we have engaging in this kind of conversation.
    Not that we come to an answer
    that on its arrival
    seems to answer all of the
    Unresolved doubt but rather that in asking the question we’re being faithful and that god will be present to us in it
    So having said that friends we understand that
    You may
    Be scratching your head thinking,
    you know Missional sounds great, but i’m still not sure I get
    What it means and and by all means we want to continue that conversation
    And I want to put an asterisk on this and say that michael and I
    May be completely wrong in this next section of the podcast
    But in the spirit of being practical I I want for a moment us to offer you
    Some guesses as to what missional may look like in congregations in the coming years.
    In other words
    What might be some of the practical impact of this kind of missional?
    theological conversation
    On the life of a church
    like first presbyterian church spirit lake, iowa and
    It would be very interesting to see if any of these hold true.
    They may all be wrong
    We may get none of them,
    right?
    But let’s offer you some ideas
    About what they may mean as we move forward in our life together in congregations
    And the first I would say that it seems to me that the missional
    Conversation is going to encourage the church to be more global to be less
    Locked to its context we live in a time in which we can easily trade information and experience we can travel
    We can do it without traveling.
    We can do that online
    And so I think that the missional church of the coming era may be more global in its impact
    I think we’re going to find ourselves more influenced
    By the christian experience in other parts of the world.
    I think we’re going to be more aware
    of some of the successes and difficulties of our brothers and sisters in
    Far-off places.
    I think that the church is going to find itself maybe in its reading its resources its hymnody Its worship styles.
    I think there’s going to be a greater sharing
    of christian experience With parts of the world that aren’t native to us
    Yeah, I think so and i’m gonna twist that around
    And say I think there’s another sense in which the church will be even more local
    And what I mean by that is I think that churches will as time goes on recognize how necessary it is
    for each of its members to conceive of their work in their local community as
    engrafted into part of the congregational
    Witness and mission so in other words if you work at a bank or you work at a school or you are a dentist or
    If you are a janitor for a company or if you’re on an assembly line
    when you
    Leave the sanctuary on sunday
    It is likely that your church in the future
    Is not going to be representative of the total population of your town that it will it in lots of places churches will be smaller
    And in lots of places when you go out of that sanctuary
    You will be functioning as a in some places
    Really one of the sole witnesses to jesus christ in that area.
    We see even in the united states
    Missional theologians talk about places where there are there’s not a strong christian presence and because of that
    Christians and our conduct what we say and what we do and how we interact within our local communities whether you
    Find yourself in positions of civic power like school boards and city councils or whether you simply find yourself in relational
    Context with other people you may find yourself to be really representing for others
    The gospel when they have never seen it before we used to assume that people
    Knew what hymns were and that they’d been to church services
    There are already places in the country where that assumption is no longer valid and there will be places
    That will that will continue to be the case.
    And so I think the local
    Mission and connection and service of churches will become even more important for those reasons
    I agree, and I think an aspect of that that may be a difficult one for those of us who live
    under the umbrella will be that that
    missional church of the near future will likely be far less denominational the labels
    of
    methodist and
    Presbyterian and lutheran and even catholic to some extent are already
    Meaning less than they used to and I think that is likely
    To continue as we interact with a culture that is increasingly
    less
    Saturated with the ideas of religion
    or christian faith
    as we navigate the kind of
    Losing of the cultural language that echoes our own christian language.
    I think we’ll find ourselves
    Far less concerned with the big picture of denominations.
    I I think that we will
    Likely be as connected to churches of various strains in our own area
    Then we will worry about our big national
    Organizations.
    I I simply think
    That for the near future
    The denominational pattern the denominational overhead the denominational system is unlikely to prove
    Incredibly helpful as we navigate some of these issues.
    Uh, I just want to
    Ditto that.
    Yes, I completely agree.
    I was going to say something much similar to that
    So I I think that’s accurate and I would add clint that I think we already see this tension happening
    in both Congregations and maybe even more clearly in sort of national church gatherings right now
    But there there appears to be
    Our kind of fork in the road as we respond to some of the cultural religious institutional
    Realities of the moment in which we live
    Some seem to take the tack where they turn outward and become aggressive towards culture where they
    they really sort of
    Seem to sort of want to fight to take ground or sort of stand a line and say this this is we’re unwilling to give up
    this particular privilege or voice or
    In some cases churches can become and christians can become
    Very aggressive as sort of respond to what feels like a decline
    I think another road that we see and I think the the missional conversation highlights
    Is that fundamentally even amidst the sort of collapse of what we might call?
    institutional Christendom We see in that an opportunity for the reductionism that we heard dr
    Guder talk about in our previous conversation and and if you haven’t listened to that
    I highly recommend that you listen to that it provides a foundation for a lot of today’s discussion
    But that reductionism as it goes away,
    I think will actually lead the church
    To a place where those who are connected to the faith will have a very deep connection to that faith
    As it becomes less culturally beneficial to be christian
    in the western world
    It will be for those who choose the faith and find the gospel and its compelling message of forgiveness and redemption and resurrection
    For those I think it will be life changing in a way that it may be difficult to
    To embody in the culture that we have seen and the lives that we’ve taken for granted
    I I think you’re going to see churches thrive.
    Yes, there will be difficulty.
    There’ll be hard conversations
    there will be even times when churches feel hemmed in by the places and the problems that surround them but
    You know, we’ve seen historically the church thrives in difficult times in difficult places
    That it is those who need the good news that the gospel
    Explodes within them and animates them by the power of the spirit.
    So
    Though there is grief and sadness with what appears to be the things happening around the church
    I think that there should also be cause for faith and trust and hope because god will be at work in the midst of it
    One of the marks of that I think michael is that we will see
    Eventually a decrease in the importance of labels
    the idea of
    This kind of christianity or that kind of christianity again at a denominational level.
    I think We already begin to see that but I think even labels like
    conservative
    liberal
    Fundamental pentecostal.
    I I think some of those labels are going to be less important
    I think they’re just going to functionally mean less
    Now the bad news is that it seems to me in order to get there
    They’re going to be more important
    until then that that as we
    lose some of our
    Footing we’re going to instinctively reach for those things as tools.
    I I would say that’s already happening
    I I would say that in the
    Conversation you hear now it is often one kind of christian against another kind of christian and to me
    I think that’s a signal
    I think that’s a sign
    that
    We’re making that transition and I I think ultimately
    That’s going to be our reality for a while
    But I hope that on the other side of that
    There will be a moment in which those labels are far less important than our oneness our unity in christ
    so if you think of a letter like carinthians where paul says look some of you are saying your your
    um or galatians
    Various places in paul where he says some of you say you belong to this guy or your paul’s kind of christians or peters kind
    of christians or paul’s kind of christians and and
    and already they began from a place of comfort and affluence to begin separating and paul calls them back to unity and
    The the bad news is I think that’s going to take some knockdown drag out battles along the way
    But I think that we may get there which ultimately will be good news
    Yeah, and the missional conversation
    Is one such that it is
    Hard to pin down and and I think fundamentally that is going to be a struggle for the church
    I think you’re going to see the missional conversation
    Explicitly named
    In lots of different places in context and I think many of them are going to
    Be different some are going to be completely
    antithetical to one another I think
    There’s a kind of looseness in this framework in which we’re called to ask questions
    That allows the questioner to come to very different answers and I I would submit to you
    That we like to have control
    Humans like to have it all buttoned up and we like to believe that we’re the ones with the answers and I believe that
    This is going to require us of us a certain kind of humility to recognize that ultimately god’s spirit
    Will be the orbiter of truth that ultimately god will have and lead god’s church
    Into the place where god wants it to go and where we over invest our identities in a thing that isn’t ours to start with
    The missional conversation is going to bruise us a little bit because I mean ultimately it’s about god’s mission god’s at the center
    To whatever extent it is.
    Our identity is the identity given to us by god.
    So We can’t as christians
    believe that we own any conversation and I think that’s one of the challenging aspects of this is we must be humble enough to ask the question
    and trusting enough to recognize that god will lead and
    There will be circumstances clint there will be times where we will
    Think that we discerned rightly and will go wrongly and it’s going to require humility
    And even courage to say that was wrong
    We need to change course and we should we should practice that that’s not an easy task,
    but it’s a necessary one
    Yeah, I think there are some directions that the church may go that will be difficult um I think
    you know, they may be
    A product of some struggles in some case they may be forced upon us in other ways.
    We may find our self there
    Kind of at our own direction.
    I I think a couple of things that may happen in regard to congregations like first press I think
    Long term you may see buildings becoming less important.
    So less building centric churches building centered
    um the the primary
    Investments the primary energies of the church may not be toward keeping and building a space that may
    That may evolve in a new way and along the same lines.
    I think some of those churches and fellowships are going to
    um
    by
    By default and I think by intention in other cases
    Be less pastor driven be less pastor centric.
    I think congregations are going to
    stand to take greater
    direction greater
    Responsibility for the life of the church rather than the idea that there are a couple of people
    Who are in charge of that?
    I think that that understanding
    is going to be
    um, maybe a return to that new testament model where
    There really is a shared leadership among the people and though there are shepherds
    It’s not the shepherd’s jobs to do things and um,
    I I want to
    I want to just put an asterisk there and say
    I think we
    We do a decent job of that at first press
    But I think on the whole one of the moves we may see in the missional era
    could be a
    A little less importance on the office of pastor
    Yeah, in fact, uh the language that dr
    Guder uses and his understanding missional theology is that we should be
    Having teaching elders and his idea is that the primary goal is for
    The teaching elder to teach so that the church can be the pastors that the church can in their own lives and vocation do that work
    Which is a very reformed understanding.
    I mean through and through but the the point I think for this conversation
    and I think you’re exactly right clint is that
    Ultimately,
    we have taken for granted as churches in the last hundred years
    That we can use our resources
    and equip those who will do ministry that that they can professionally
    engage time and talent in a way that then
    Really remove some responsibility from the congregation both for good and for bad
    I’m, not sure that i’m gonna weigh into any of the values of that
    But I but we have largely made assumptions that our pastors will do the visitation
    They will do the teaching they’ll do the worship leadership the preaching that all of these different things
    we conceive of as pastors doing and
    What I think we’re going to discover
    Is that the the lay person of the church and their leadership and their witness?
    Is far more important than what we have emphasized in the past and we’re going to not only
    Reclaim that but we’re going to begin to rely upon it and I actually
    In a world in which churches and pastors clint we talk all the time about well
    It’s hard to get volunteers people don’t seem invested in the church anymore
    I think there’s actually a reverse reality that once people discover how rewarding and impactful doing those ministries are
    That I think there’s a sense in which people will become far more vested in them
    I think when you discover that no i’m a witness that my life and my story and god’s work in my
    Life actually matters and that it is a witness to this larger story
    That is so compelling that I think that there will be a sense in which the church is reinvigorated to do that work
    And that people will find it less of a chore that I have to sign up to do because it’s my turn
    But rather an opportunity for you to to really put your hand at an important spiritual work
    I hope so michael and that would
    I I think in some ways
    Go with what may be my last thoughts on
    Some sort of prediction and that would be that that
    The missional church of the near future may be less
    Programmatic now don’t get me wrong.
    The church will still do things
    but it will
    Have less interest in those things attracting people
    In other words the programs won’t be the bait to quote unquote get people to come here
    Whether that’s worship or whether that’s nursery or whether that’s preschool
    Or or whatever it is the idea won’t be that the people are drawn to the program
    The idea will be that we do those things as part of our mission and people through those things
    Are drawn to christ and and what that means?
    For each of us is that we function less as volunteers
    And more as ministers
    We function not as people
    making a thing happen
    But as people who are living out our mission
    Through doing that thing and it
    Practically, would you know the difference looking at it?
    I don’t know that you would
    but
    I believe this fully if you are inside of it
    You will see the difference you will feel the difference.
    It’s the difference between walking into a church
    Where the gospel is alive and walking into a church that is desperately hoping to survive
    There is a difference of feel and people I think resonate with it and and I think we will worry less about
    programs in the coming years and more about
    Mission as we’ve had as we’ve tried to define it in this conversation
    And I think it will be a very interesting transition and I think there is a lot
    Of potential for all of us in it.
    I think my last thing i’m going to contribute here clint is I
    And i’m going to expose my bias here.
    This this may be more michael goecky than it is really any
    Faithful prediction, but but I do think you’re going to see the missional church
    Engaging and claiming more and more of a unique vocabulary
    Moving forward
    I think what we experience now in a lot of our churches is a lot of crossover where we bring into our churches a lot of
    Cultural and political language, you know, i’m
    I’m this or i’m that or you this or you that we find all of these creative ways to label one another and I think as the
    Church is reshaped and as culture changes and as these things are all worked out.
    I think the church is going to
    Return much like they did in the reformation when they came back to the scriptures with a different lens
    They asked different questions and they came with some very generative responses that the scriptural witness came alive in a new way
    I think that the missional church is going to
    Not see things that weren’t in the scripture
    But things that we did not see with the kind of clarity and bright vivid color that is actually there
    And I think as we do that
    things like grace and
    reconciliation
    and Once again resurrection.
    I think we live in a time where the church is
    Experiencing death in a meaningful way and I think we’re going to rediscover resurrection life in a meaningful way that that this
    Theological scriptural frame is not just metaphor.
    It’s not just nice words in a dusty bible
    But rather I think the missional church is going to rediscover a rich vocabulary a kind of theological
    Bedrock that will be for it a sustaining force moving into the future and I think that will be a good thing that may be
    Coming from a person who overvalues intellectual and the tradition that that overvalues thinking
    So that may be the bias that I bring to that conversation
    But I I do think there’s an opportunity in the missional church and in the missional conversation
    to reframe Some of those sunday school words and and understand them in a way that’s far deeper than maybe what the church has in the past
    Yeah, so there are some guesses.
    Uh, if you’ve thought to yourself,
    what will it look like?
    What does it look like?
    There’s some guesses as to what that might entail we again
    Could have missed it completely
    None of those may end up panning out.
    It may go a completely different direction
    But whatever direction it goes
    We will get there by focusing on the work of jesus christ the person of jesus christ not on what we want
    Primarily, but what god calls us to making the church making the gospel
    about that mission that god is calling us to rather than
    What we want to do with it.
    And as we do that, I think
    Our faith tells us we trust that we will be drawn in the directions
    That god seeks for individuals and for the church together
    So wherever we go we get there by keeping our eyes on christ as we always have
    And we look forward to being a part of it in this place in some small
    Uh shape or form.
    Yeah, the the title we had for today as you see concluding questions
    I think the ultimate missional question is what is the mission of god?
    And and that encompasses
    All of these things and then ultimately how can the people of god participate in in that work?
    These are the meta questions that hang over all of the other questions
    And if we were to live all of our lives asking god,
    what is your mission?
    We will never reach the depth of what that is and we will never fully
    Have encapsulated or accomplished the work that we are called to be participants in so friends
    Let us engage that question boldly.
    Let us trust that god will be with us even as we make false steps forward
    And if we can have that faith in the god who is already at work
    Then I think we can be confident that wherever that journey takes us
    He will be with us and we will see things and um get to participate in things that today
    We couldn’t even ask or imagine absolutely and we want to thank you for being part of it in this small journey with this podcast
    We have enjoyed asking these questions.
    We hope you have enjoyed engaging them at some level
    We hope you’ll continue to listen as we continue to work through other series and other podcasts
    We are grateful for the time and attention you would give these ideas and that you would give us and we are thankful to be in this uh
    Evolving journey toward Jesus with you
    So a final note here is we conclude remember if you’ve enjoyed this series someone else might enjoy it
    Also, feel free to share with them this video share with them this series
    You’ll find it all on our website fpc spirit lake dot org slash pastor talk and you’ll find it wherever
    You are watching or listening to this today
    We’re glad that you take time to be with us
    Look forward to seeing you next week when we kick off off our newest series here at the podcast
    But until then friends be blessed

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