In Conclusion: Covid-19 and the Enneagram

Hey, welcome back to the Pastor Talk podcast.
This will be our last podcast on the Enneagram.
We want to thank you for making this journey through the Enneagram with us.
We hope something in it has perhaps been helpful.
We hope that maybe you’ve had an opportunity to see yourself
somewhere in it, maybe learn some things about yourself and how we all are wired,
either how we got there or how it affects us.
We’ve enjoyed the conversations.
We’ve enjoyed the discussions we’ve been able to have about the Enneagram.
We look forward to
having more of those perhaps down the road.
We struggled with how to end this.
You know, we went a couple of weeks longer than we planned with the quarantine and everything.
And so,
actually, the quarantine took us to our final session,
which is Michael and I are going to
offer some thoughts on where each type might be in the midst of this lockdown,
of this shutdown and social distancing time,
how some of our current experience might land on each type,
and then some thoughts on how each type might have some unique traits and some unique possible
things that they do naturally well that help others or help us in this time as well.
So, we want to probably give you the asterisk on the front end.
We are certainly not experts in this.
Of all of the sessions,
this one is the least academic and the most instinctual.
We’re kind of
making some assumptions based on our experiences and our reading.
And if this doesn’t fit,
perfectly fine, but we hope maybe there’ll be something in it that will make some sense.
Yeah, there’s no way that we could have predicted when we began the Leighton study in the beginning
where we would be right now.
And so, I think it is just a word of thanks for going along with us.
And also, I hope that as we’ve made this journey,
the Enneagram has provided for you a lens,
not only of what has happened in your life,
but maybe as we even look at today,
how this can be applicable in our very present lives.
Yeah, so we’ll just be going through the types and we’ll be offering you some thoughts,
and we hope they’re helpful.
We will start in order.
We’ll just start with the ones.
Michael,
what’s your sense of what a one is experiencing in this time of distancing and quarantine?
You know, it’s tough because a lot of ones who are in the workforce are probably working from home.
I would guess that if you have a space that you can sort of set aside as your own,
ones are probably waking up generally on time,
getting it to their home office and crushing it,
getting stuff done, and that might feel good.
It also might not be going that well if you have
to work with other people and you have to show up on Zoom meetings and all of your colleagues are
sort of not doing the work that needs done and that’s landing on your plate.
I’ve got to imagine
that’s got to be pretty tough for a one right now.
Yeah, I would think so.
Ones tend to be creatures of habit.
They like routine and that generally comes because a one has established an efficient
and effective and productive routine,
and so they like to stick with it.
I think particularly those
ones who have that routine significantly upended right now may be struggling,
but most ones probably are quickly finding a new routine.
They’re probably dedicated to space at home where they’re
set it up as their office and they’re in there getting things done.
Ones by nature are productive
and I doubt this has changed that.
In terms of what’s behind,
some of one’s stuff,
you know, ones especially I would think with a two wing could be feeling some frustration now in this time.
You mentioned the frustration with other people,
but that sense of justice for the one,
if they have the idea that people are being taken advantage of,
that there’s unfairness happening,
that there’s wrongness in any of this,
I think for a one they might be getting in touch with some of that anger,
some of that righteous indignation that tends to be an undercurrent for a one.
Wouldn’t you say that
a one in this current circumstance may be looking for that idea of perfect and this is the worst
moment to try to achieve whatever that level of perfection is,
whether that’s your health goals
or your family goals or what you think.
The expectation of family life should be everyone
right now is waking up and calling audibles for the rest of the day.
I mean we’re all trying to
make best with what we have,
but for a one who lives in a pretty structured world where things
have a place and there’s an order and there’s a right and there’s a wrong,
there’s this internal jury that’s judging a one’s actions,
I think it could be a particularly challenging moment if
you’re struggling to make those adaptations,
it could easily be a moment where you start feeling
like things are building up.
Yeah and if you run a business and you had to send people home and ask
them to work from home and be efficient,
I think you’d want lots of those people to be ones.
I would think you would.
So let’s think about the other side of that.
What does a one offer the
world or the people around them in this time,
Michael?
What does a one bring to the table that
the rest of us need from them right now?
Well quite frankly, Clint, we all need order now in
some ways more than ever.
We need people to remind us that just because there are disruptions does
not mean that the rest of us can abdicate responsibility.
So I think it’s good for the
one in the family to remind people,
hey,
you should wear clothes to supper sometime,
not just pajamas.
Hey, we should as a family not just sit here and zone out on screens every night.
Let’s get out of
family board game because that’s what we should do as a family.
I think ones can help us remember
that even when things are different,
there can be order to life.
Yeah very much so and I think
the other gift that one might offer is again that sense of looking for what is best as the rest of
us maybe try to muddle through day to day that the one is that person that can point us toward,
hey, is there a time to grow?
Is there a time to make improvements in this time?
Could we as a family, an organization,
a business, whatever it is,
be more effective?
Could we succeed in a new way?
And I think some ones in your corner during this time probably pretty helpful because
they really add such stability to an environment.
You know if you’re going to do some self-care
during this time once,
I think it would be really good for you to find moments to disengage from
whatever you think that normal needs to be and to intentionally practice reminding yourself who you
are right now and what you’re doing right now is good enough.
You’re a beloved child of God,
even just journaling about what does it mean for me to be a beloved child of God could be a significant
invitation to ones as you seek to share your positive gifts.
Yeah and maybe I think for the
one not to experience the unsettledness as additional pressure and really as freedom,
I mean the typical one is going to by anyone else’s standards probably excel in this time and likely
the only one who’s going to think they’re not doing well enough will be themselves and so ones
give yourself a break.
You’re probably doing great,
you’re probably ahead of most of the game
and so give yourself the freedom to be done at three o’clock instead of five o’clock, to
start the first hour of the day in your pajamas if that’s what you needed.
It’s okay not to have
those things feel like pressure.
If they feel better for you in terms of transition,
I flipped the switch, I was at home,
now I’m at work great but if they feel as pressure to you easier said
than done but lighten up on yourselves a little bit and go along a little ways if you can.
I think that brings us to twos.
Clint how do you think twos are doing?
I have to imagine this is a really hard time for twos.
I mean we’re talking about the people who
are connected relationally probably more so than any other number.
They have this spider web of
connections and inner connections.
They love taking care of people,
they love touching base
with people, they love being instrumental in people’s lives and now we’ve taken them and we’ve
told them you know stay six feet from everybody and don’t really get involved.
I have to think
this is kind of soul-wrenching for a twos.
I can’t imagine it’s an easy period.
Yeah I think you’re exactly right Clint.
I think that this is by nature of what it is because of the social distancing.
Yes I think there’s another level of that relationally and maybe even spiritually.
This is a cold affront to all of us who at one time or another and especially twos who
entertain that idea that I’m needed because literally overnight some of those things that
we have always done for people ceased.
We couldn’t go drop in and deliver goodies.
We couldn’t go let we know just needs a date.
I mean that narrative that we might tell ourselves that I’m
indispensable.
I’m needed in this circumstance.
That narrative has been blown to pieces in this
moment because quite frankly the walls have come down and for a moment that stuff’s not available
to us.
So to whatever extent the two right now is wrestling with identity and the realities of how
these relational connections continue on even when you can’t help.
I think this is going to be a dark
night.
This is a difficult time.
Yeah and in that there could really be a gift for a two
to nurture those relationships in ways that aren’t self-referential and to really
find genuine ways to nurture those relationships,
to touch base with neighbors,
to use social media
but the gift of this time for a two might be that it’s impossible for them to put themselves in the
middle of it and by definition it almost forces them to a little bit more healthy place of truly
connecting with others in a limited way.
Two’s we know that this is not easy for you.
On the other hand Michael a two naturally brings a lot to this time.
A two shows up with a lot of very
necessary and important skills right now.
Nobody is better at thinking about the needs of others.
Nobody is better about being creative about how to lift other people’s spirits and what they could
do to encourage others and twos you really have a moment to shine here from a healthy place
we the rest of us we very much appreciate and admire your ability to come up with new ways
to connect with people and to give some joy to people and some light in the darkness and
keep doing that and find new ways to do that.
Wouldn’t you think that’d be a two kind of thing?
Yeah I think that as this extends on and who knows what the horizon of this is
twos are an incredibly important piece in this entire community because fundamentally
twos are able to see needs in a way that absolutely we all need to see and there is really
a circumstance in which people could easily fall through the cracks.
People really could have needs
and us not know it simply because government agencies are less effective than they normally
are though local leaders are trying to respond in positive ways there’s just gaps that exist and so
twos I do think in a in a moment in which there’s some frustration in the air people are impatient
there’s even a little bit of some relational friction happening of course within homes but
even culturally there’s just some of that happening we need to be reminded that we need
to care for the lost and the least that we need to keep our perspective looking outward and that’s
a natural gift you bring to the conversation.
Yeah and twos your self-care moment here is that
you’re probably feeling lonely you’re probably feeling maybe more so than many of the rest of
us a sense of disconnect and therefore you’re most at risk of activating some of those
particular temptations of of your personality type which is score keeping you know I called
them three times they didn’t call me back they didn’t call me one a two is going to have to be
careful right now not to let some of that disconnect push them in unhealthy places but twos
if you can manage that leave the rest of us in how we can reach out and connect right now because
we’re all struggling and you’re better at it than most of us are.
Threes Michael how do you think our threes are doing?
Threes are winning it right now
threes are beating the coronavirus no I joke but I do think if you are a three you know something
about getting up surveying the landscape making a plan and tackling it and the ever present
temptation of the three is going to be to fill their life with productive efficient mechanisms
to succeed and this is another context in which to win if you got moved home and you have to work
from home you’re going to figure out how to be the best remote worker that’s ever existed how you
climb the corporate ladder to VP of remote work or if you are a three in your home and you might
have started four businesses by now trying to figure out how to monetize people being at home
and you have ideas and the temptation of a three is going to be to very quickly fill life with all
of this efficient productive bettering stuff so that once again you are unable to slow down
to take care of yourself and the people around you and to become fixated on whatever the next
ladder that needs climbed and therefore miss the moment you’re in.
Sure so the the three
mom or dad who’s home with kids their home schooling they may be convinced that they’ve
got a better way to educate kids than the school did you know they that that three is going to find
ways to do all of that the danger in that threes is that you’re doing that to kind of protect
yourself from some of what else might be going on whether that’s fear over the situation we’re in
or whether it’s just your kind of natural tendency to define yourselves by achieving things you’re
going to need to be conscious of that the good news is there’s lots of new things there’s lots
of stuff upside down and there’s lots of need for people to help us manage it the bad news is
that can be the siren song for a three and lead you into a place that isn’t good for you so
i think the good news bad news for a three from my perspective michael is that
it’s it’s a good time to be a three but there’s always a risk in being a three
completely and i think that can get framed in a couple ways clint i think one way it gets framed
is if you’re a three and lost your job or you’re a three and furlough and all of the stuff that
you’ve invested your identity in just got ripped out from under you this could be a dark night
sort of moment and it may be in that an invitation a possible opportunity for the three to
sit in a little bit of quiet to discern who am i and where is god in this moment
and not by the way i might add as a three to just fill your life with self-help business empowerment
books that you’ve had on your shelf waiting for you to read now maybe this is a time for some
searching but i do think you’re right clint another way to frame it is if you’re a three
and you can still live with that narrative that i’m indispensable that i’m needed that i can
succeed and i can rise up whatever ladder of success i’ve chosen to be important then you need
to work on that soul work that allows you to be that voice of optimism that voice of possibility
because quite frankly the three can bring a lot of get up and go to a conversation and say hey
we did it this way today we’re doing it this way and it’s going to be great let’s go
and if you can bring that to the conversation you’re going to be offering a great good but if
you bring it to the conversation and root it in the sense of needing to draw from other people
approval and once again that sort of external measure of success whatever you’ve defined for
yourself that’s going to be a tough thing for you to work through yeah and and the good thing i
think the thing that threes offer us is they’re going to find some ways to be productive they’re
going to find some ways to be efficient threes are likely to stumble on or not even stumble on to
create some really positive things some some really helpful things and threes if you can
release the idea that those things elevate you and share them as true gifts to others so
if you can share the homeschool idea without needing to get credit for being the greatest
homeschooler ever you offer the rest of us some real benefit but you have to understand the risk
that goes with that and i i think michael if if a three could manage to keep themselves on the
little bit they are likely to really help the rest of us with some stuff that will
will get things done and be efficient and and help us succeed in the rest of the mess as you said
before when you said really well it should be repeated that’s the thing that’s dangerous about
threes is when they show up with gifts that are so useful the temptation is for them to share those
gifts so that other people return to them the thing that they think they need because they
don’t believe that they themselves have worth so offer the gifts you have threes but you don’t
need to offer them to be a person of value your loved and valued for who you are so that takes
us to number four how are our fours doing clint yeah so there are a couple of numbers i think
particularly four and six for whom
they’re kind of unfortunately wired for these moments the difference may be that i think the
four almost enjoys it a little i mean the the idea that that four is comfortable with sadness
and melancholy and is somewhat at home in the dark places it would be easy for a four right
now to crawl in that cave and and not come out very much to really dig into that woe is all of
us woe is me doom and gloom and and just soak in it just sit in it and that would be i think a real
natural temptation for a four if if they weren’t actively trying to avoid it it’s also a tough
moment for fours i think because fours have this inner need to differentiate themselves from others
to be unique and this is a tough time because you need other people around you to be unique
you need others to be in that interplay and so if you have naturally framed your life that way
you may be struggling to figure out well how am i different in a world that’s struggling
with the same stuff that i am i know my neighbors and my family and my friends they’re all
we’re all dealing we’re all in this together and as a four i do think you need to be very
careful to not go to a place of deep unhealth unhealthfulness unhealthiness and to wallow in
that to not feel the need to make yourself uniquely a dark uniquely unhealthy uniquely
you need to recognize that that your worth and your merit does not lie in sort of this
separateness but rather in something deeply held within you yeah i can imagine that fours would
be having a hard time getting out of bed sort of throwing themselves into that idea it just doesn’t
matter who cares maybe there could be some self-care happening you know fours if they don’t need to
clean up or express their individuality by being seen if they’re not going to be online or out and
about a four might be able to talk themselves or allow themselves to cut some corners in terms of
hygiene and laundry piling up and some of that so fours i i think you need to recognize this is a
hard time to be a four but it may not feel hard because some of it resonates with where you come
from and you you may be of all the types or among the types may have to work the hardest to
differentiate where you could naturally go from where you want to go and i think that’s going to
take some work for the fours now on the other side michael what what does the four bring
to this moment that the rest of us can use and benefit from well just give an example uh there’s
pixar movie by the name of inside out and it’s about the different emotions that a little girl
has and one of those emotions is sadness and you know about to ruin the movie for you but the
punchline of the movie one of the story arcs is that we discover that a person can’t be joyful
all the time that sometimes you just need someone who understands sadness to be able to unlock our
emotions and to help us process things and fours of all of the types you have an access to sadness
to melancholy to that dark side of life that you cannot assume the other numbers have they just
have not plumbed the depths like you may have and so a great gift that you can offer to many people
right now is the willingness to call and to listen because other people’s experience of grief
and frustration and maybe even anxiety in this time is likely not even close to the emotional
registers that you felt and so if you can sit in the room and listen and just show others that you
care and be a guide for them in their own sadness that’s an unbelievable gift that you could offer
yeah there’s a significant number of enneagram types who aren’t very comfortable with
those feelings of vulnerability with sadness with struggle and fours if you’re in a healthy place
you can very much act as the tour guide for those of us that don’t go to that place very often and
frankly don’t want to but may find ourselves in increasingly during these moments whether that’s
loneliness whether that’s the the heaviness of these moments of seeing death tolls and sickness
counts and spread maps and and those kind of realities that we’re all dealing with fours you
are at home in a way that most of us aren’t and as such i think you offer us some real wisdom
and some real guidance as we try to navigate some of that i also think that fours as people who
are expressive of the in the inner life and the soul i do think that this is a really powerful
moment for you to create in whatever means that seems natural to you images metaphors whether
that’s with words or maybe actual with paint maybe that’s with making video maybe that’s with song
as a number that tends to be a creative number you know do not underestimate how much those
symbols mean to other people that you can in many ways create things out of your own life
experience and share them on social media or however is best fitting because that can really
mean a lot to people going through this that brings us to fives fives i think are an inner
this is an interesting question for a five because on one hand the five may not be particularly
troubled by lots of this the social distancing may not be a huge factor to a five in fact some of
them the particularly the introverted ones may think what’s everybody complaining about this is
this is great um there is a near constant stream of new information for the five to look out you
if the five is interested in coronavirus there’s a an endless well of articles daily of testing
results of they are digging in and processing all of that you know for a five in some ways michael
this may not be a particularly uncomfortable space yeah and i think that’s true i would add to that
i think that the fives have got to be very careful of their use and access to the internet
because fives are perceptive people they’re those people who are looking and watching and they’re
seeing and you know the interesting thing is about the internet the internet tends to deliver
you the stuff that you want or that you’re most likely to click on and the reason i mentioned
that fives is you have this inner desire to know just remember that the stuff that you’re
consuming is maybe not all stuff that you’re choosing and that frames the way that you
view things so i do think there is some real need for for evaluators for thinkers for people sort
of looking if all you read every day is that either the world is going to hell in a hand basket or
the opposite that’s going to be a very tough mental space for you to navigate right now yeah
and i think healthy fives michael have to be frustrated with this fact that everybody is home
everybody has access to the internet and just the abundance of non-logical non-scientific
non-evidential just the amount of garbage that is out there the the the fake stuff the false stuff
the the misleading stuff the misquoted stuff that has to be kind of soul draining i think it’s hard
on all of us but for a five that very much values and treasures precise information that has to be
miserable that has to be tough and so fives though you have a tendency to to kind of keep
good information to yourself though that may be your natural bent i think one of the places fives
can help us is really to kind of shed a light on trustworthy information and and fives i’m not
suggesting you just lecture everybody all the time what what i’m saying is i think fives provide
a nice balance to the person who reads one article and takes it as gospel truth because the
five has read 15 articles and thoughtfully processed what they mean for them i do think
that that is an opportunity for the five to offer a lot to the larger conversation fives
you are able to approach circumstances with a relatively non-emotional stance not without
emotion but you’re generally able to to separate between what you think and what you feel and i’ll
just be honest you are alone in that camp at this point most people are so emotionally invested in
this conversation that to really to think clearly is a thing that most people have lost at this
point now it’s not to say that others can’t work on that but i do think you can come to this
conversation with a kind of non-anxious presence that is a valuable gift so share that gift with
others and you know maybe that doesn’t look like you’re just throwing more stuff into the noise but
i do think fives you have a gift for being able to process things and sit with things and we all
need that right now and i do think maybe just a word there michael thinking about it on the other
side you know fives also realize that as you bring that information you often bring it to people who
are emotionally connected to their reception of it so in other words when the five talks statistically
about disease rates and transmission rates and death rates and that seems like just
flat science to a five if they’re saying that to a two or two of an obsessed six
you need to understand that not everybody is able to approach those conversations
with that kind of separation between thought and feeling and feel your way into those conversations
so that you’re not upsetting people unintentionally and this is it is positive but there’s also a
little bit of a warning in this five should be double checking are there people in my life am
i welcoming people in my life remember fives are the ones who are of this tendency of creating
firewalls and sort of keeping people separate from people so this is not a time to disappear
from the world it would be easy to do in a moment of social distancing but fives need to stay
engaged you need to find ways that you can connect with people and that is going to be the context in
which you can share your gifts and so don’t let yourself get to a place where you’re locked in
the room and nobody knows where you’re at yeah hang in there fives we definitely could use your
thoughtfulness michael sixes and again difficult time for all of the types in one way or another
this has to land hard on sixes this is the worst nightmare this is all of the things that the six
is afraid coming to real life it’s a system breaking down it’s people not doing what they’re
supposed to do it’s it’s unsettled information it’s changing landscapes it’s vulnerability it’s
it really is the big snowball that that the six fears yeah because ultimately the six’s fear is
that i’m not safe and that is literally the conversation that’s happening on every airwave
is what is the level of safety that surrounds you so six is this this is maybe the moment to
pause and to name that the first way out is probably down is just to recognize that the
thing that has driven my behavior trying to surround myself with people who can protect me
and systems that can provide me security it’s likely for many sixes the systems have betrayed
them or that’s the feeling that the institution whether that’s your work or the government or the
community you know whatever those institutions are for you that they’ve been unable to make
the promises that you feel like that they have made to you sixes you just got a name i live in
a moment in which stuff is not the way that i think it should be because from that moment you
can start reflecting on well where are you really are you safe are you doing what you can and trusting
god to carry the rest yeah so six is i think one helpful realization as michael has said if you can
name your anxiety if you can understand that your fear meter concern meter is probably
sensitive a point or two so if if you’re feeling ten realistically we might be at eight and that’s
okay if if you can acknowledge that you have a tendency to bring more anxiety than a situation
may warrant and you can give yourself the freedom to confess that to admit that i i think that helps
because then when you’re at ten you can talk yourself down and say no i i’m it’s really eight
or maybe it’s really seven out there because i always add a couple of numbers just by virtue of
of my approach to things and i think maybe that begins to help the six step back a little bit
sixes i would also say really important right now for you to try and stay connected to people you
trust you may not be able to see them physically but make sure you’re in email contact or phone
contact conference calls whatever that looks like for you now make sure you’re touching base with
some of those people in your system because they really are the the way that you prop yourself up
and there’s nothing wrong with that we all need that right now that’s where i was going to go
i was going to say that i think a gift that sixes can offer is above all times we need connectedness
we need trust we need some stability and sixes with your natural belief that we can be connected
that we can create ordered structure that we can mitigate some of this fear and anxiety listen the
world needs that right now we need to be reminded that we rely upon one another that we can
continue to make choices that benefit the larger whole and not just ourselves and so sixes
continue to like i think clint is recommending dial back that that anxiety to a level that is
maybe a little bit truer to the current reality but in addition to that seek to be injecting into
the conversation some of that stuff that you know and that you trust some of those core concerns
that you have are concerns that are very relevant right now michael is is this fair in an ironic way
sixes for us right now might be realists i mean sixes tend to be out a couple of steps ahead of
terms of anxiety but right now they’re they’re probably closer to where the rest of us should
be and you know we’re not sixes are not the ones out protesting and gathering in groups without
masks on that that’s not happening for sixes right now almost undoubtedly so sixes as new
systems and as new guidelines as we begin to reintegrate into society and we figure out things
like do we shake hands anymore or is it elbow bumping or do we bow to one another i do i think
sixes offer us some significant guidance as the rest of us reconsider what structures look like
because sixes are going to have a head start on us we love you six there’ll be down that road aways
already we love you sixes we need you stay strong this though it may be the nightmare
there will be daybreak once again and remember that god goes with you there is no darkness god
is not gone that leads us to sevens when i think of a seven i stuck at home i see one of two
scenarios spotless house literally gleaming shiny everything has been cleaned it’s been moved it’s
been put away then it’s been rearranged and put in new places ten times or i see garbage dump
just everything i i can’t imagine how difficult social distancing and stay at home kind of orders
ish are for sevens who have that desire that drive to be out there to be doing things to be
extroverted to be with people often um sevens have to feel a little bit like caged animals right
now yeah i think sevens have got to feel like their world just came crashing to a halt and as
you start thinking about what it means for you to live sort of into this new normal i do think
sevens need to be careful that you don’t suddenly turn into like super endurance athletes overnight
that you don’t find yourself getting on a bike and riding 100 miles when you’ve not trained
fundamentally sevens are always sort of pushing the edge anyways clint and here we’re in the
circumstance where it is now not only them pushing the edge but pushing the edge which
with a huge current against them so this could be a time for a seven where there might be even
some more dangerous life choices some stuff like oh well i’ll just buy the next expedia ticket to
wherever and i’ll be fine that don’t make rash decisions in the absence of the sort of pace that
you’ve been keeping now is really a very probably difficult moment but a very pregnant moment for
sevens to consider um what is my internal life look like and how can i have uh an opportunity
to reflect on why i feel driven to this sort of frenzy um there’s really it’s a forced moment
which never feels good but that’s an opportunity and while i think some of this is true for every
type because we in in each type we find something to hide from or hide behind i think
sevens need to be in a moment of caution as well michael in terms of some of their
behaviors and what i mean by that is that seven is an escapist type and they often use activity
and busyness to avoid something internally well when you take away some of those possibilities
and and you function within a much smaller realm now what do we begin to worry about
my relationship with alcohol my relationship with the computer with spending with gambling
i i begin to have an increasing concern about those escapist behaviors that can be tempting
in those moments of isolation or those moments of distancing and and sevens i i think it is
clearly worth being alert to any of the red flags that you might be heading those directions
this is where getting some accountability partners getting some people to help i think those things
can be very important right now for sevens so that they don’t allow themselves or find themselves
chasing some paths that could have some really some really stiff consequences
absolutely and i don’t want to make a harsh transition here because all of that needs said
but of course we want to speak to some of the positives as well and i think sevens the world
needs some whimsy the world needs you to inject some of your infectious life and energy and you
know what people have not yet discovered that they can have fun on zoom and video conferencing they
haven’t figured out all of the different ways that you’ve already figured out how to make
life more interesting goodness gracious go share your life and your energy with the world yes your
walls of your home may feel like a prison but that can also if you reframe it be a base camp
to share life and light and love with others so figure out how to channel your energy because
the world needs it yeah and and the world is desperate for some positives so get yeah
sevens you are the energy you bring to those things get get out there with your dance videos
and you’re checking in with people and hey do you want to have virtual lunch and and those kind of
things you’re going to think of things the rest of us aren’t and those are a real gift to the
people who need them so that leads us to the eighth how are the eights doing clint yeah i
i think the eights this is an interesting time for an eight because uh you know that that
tendency to be against that nature of challenge there is a lot to push against right now and it
doesn’t matter if you’re conservative if you’re liberal whatever you are if you’re science if
you’re anti-science that there’s a lot of low-hanging targets out there for the eight to
to focus on and i think the temptation for an eight right now is that anger which is always present
is i i mean it’s just day after day it’s kind of the same thing and it’s there and eights i think
you all have to be careful right now that that anger isn’t the growing response to this situation
i don’t know why i’m stuck on movies today but the in the marvel movies the superhero movies
one of the characters asks the bruce banner the whole character and asks what’s your secret and
he says the secret is i’m always angry and i think if you’re an eight you are someone who knows
something about keeping anger in check and right now there’s just like gasoline poured on anger
all of the time i mean it would be so easy to pick whatever target seems like a target that
makes sense to you and to just go ballistic and here’s the danger is when that comes home
when you bring that to your family because we’re all dealing with frustrations with our family
all right we’re together at a level and with a kind of consistency now that we’re all trying
to process and so if you take that out with words if you find maybe that’s even colleagues
if you start to sort of break out and that anger is so fueled that it’s uncontainable
that’s going to be an issue yeah and and think about where an eight comes from that that anger
or that challenge is often the response to vulnerability so it’s the way eights protect
themselves from feeling vulnerable so what do we have now we have a disease to which we’re all
vulnerable novel nobody has immunity we have people telling us what to do which eights
historically aren’t very much a fan of we have eights live at a very interesting intersection
of all the stuff that’s happening culturally right now and i think eights you need to to work
really hard on some some meditation some get out and walk to some moments of calm distance from
people maybe from everybody for for times to let some of that go i i just i think eights are in a
particularly it could be a dangerous spot for them a hard spot and one way to frame this eight
is to use your gifts for the sake of others there are people who are vulnerable right now
there are people who need stood up for some of that innate desire to challenge is exactly what
we need right now wait a minute are you sure that this is the right decision for right now have you
thought this through an eights confrontational disposition is not always a problem sometimes
that’s a great asset so leaders we need people who are willing to stand up and say difficult things
we need people who are looking out for the interests of others we need people who are
connected to their vulnerabilities so that they can be strong for those who are vulnerable
eights this is a important moment for you to live into the the blessings of your gifts
because it’s not just eights aren’t just time bombs waiting to explode you you have gifts of
strength and ability and there are many people who could really use your strength right now
yeah and i think eights the the key to that might be the ability to laugh at yourself to to
let it be okay and and get rid of some of that frustration in a more positive way so if you’re
on the verge if if you see an out-of-state license plate and you all of a sudden clench up because
what are they doing here if you see the person walking without a mask or you see the group of 10
or you think it’s all stupid and we shouldn’t have to do any of it whatever it is that’s fueling you
right now if you can give yourself an out and and laugh at yourself if you can find humor in
the escalation you i think you can diffuse it and as michael said then i think you have the
opportunity to bring some of that passion some of that strength to the right places in the right
ways which michael brings us then to the nine um a curious place for a nine in some ways comfortable
and in some ways incredibly tough yeah let’s frame that so for nines this this inner disposition is to
create a world of peace externally the way that you try to achieve internal pieces by making
everyone else peaceful here’s the problem with that no one is peaceful right now i mean i’m not
saying that some of us don’t have moments where we feel peace but just the water that we are
currently swimming in and so nines have people that surround them who are dealing with all of
the frustrations and struggles and impatience and stuff that’s happening right now and the nine will
spend themselves to complete bankruptcy trying to create that peace for the others that they love
and they they it’s just an inexhaustible well right now clean it can’t be done so nines who
are alone and at home and maybe got their time back and feel like it’s just them and their dog
maybe this is an okay time for a nine maybe this feels like you’re sort of recharging batteries
but if there are people close to you that you love this may be a pretty grueling moment for a nine
yeah i think a lot of nines michael might initially like the idea of social distance and
of withdrawal because it does kind of fit that apathetic temptation that lives within every nine
but i think very quickly the reality of separation or isolation in a home where now you can’t get
away from spouse and kids and there’s not room to really detach in the way that you need to
i think this on the surface could look like it’s okay for nines but so much of what happens in a
nine is under the surface and and it could be turbulent waters right now and so nines you need
to be i think honest i think up front obviously self-aware is is great for all of us but nines
you understand that your tendency isn’t is to not deal with something until it absolutely has to be
dealt with and and often by then it’s a thousand pound weight when it could have been a hundred
pound weight and so it nines this is an opportunity to practice the discipline of facing things early
internally and hopefully avoid that sense of being overwhelmed later if you’re a nine and you’ve
lost all of the energy to live if you i’ve just decided ah it’s what does it matter if i wake up
and get today done because then tomorrow’s going to come this can be the same exact thing and i
don’t want to do tomorrow either if if you’re in this place of apathy in this place of lethargy
this is the time for you to get on the phone or to find a loved one and to encourage them hey i i
need a little bit of a shot in the arm here if you’ve got someone if you’ve got that seven
you’ve got that three maybe you’ve got a two you go and if you can be self-aware enough to know
man i i just cannot carry this weight there’s going to be people who out there who are thrilled to
encourage you a nine the temptation of the nine is to just give give give so the people stay away
you can trust other people you can let them in they can be a voice of help in this time
yeah and so nine make a list make it a reasonable list it doesn’t have to be everything it doesn’t
have to be perfect but make a system that demands of you a little bit each day maybe that’s read a
book that you’ve always planned on reading but it’s 800 pages you’ve got time knock out 20 pages
a day maybe it’s scripture maybe it’s a project at the house but do something that makes you engage
with your life regularly and daily that’s important and then on the other side michael i mean i think
the true gift that the nine brings to this situation is their sense of peacefulness when
the rest of us are sort of freaking out and and running around and the sky is falling the the nine
has that innate stability that steadfastness to say it’ll be all right calm down let’s all take a
breath and and nines we desperately need that from you i i think nines offer us a tremendous resource
in helping us access some of their inherent peace now that’s the problem nines is that you
there’s not enough of you to go around is the honest truth is that the the world we live in
a big world that needs the very thing that you are so fluent in and so to whatever extent you
can do so in a healthy soul and mind space please share the gifts that you have i mean
your ability to call people and to be good listeners your ability to help see things from
different perspectives and mend broken fences when they exist that just that innate gift that
you have to be relationally invested in other people and to do so without really any need for
return or credit nines this is this is really a moment where your ability to be present it would
be a gift to so many so don’t be afraid of it throw yourself into it we’ll all be blessed by it
and and one last word of permission for nines you know phones have off buttons emails can wait
when you get that unhealthy needy two that wants to suck up three hours of your time it’s okay to
say you know what i’m busy i i can check back with you later i’ll i’ll text you later i’ll email you
later um be aware nines of your energy reserve and the people who might siphon it if you will
let them and i i certainly am not calling you to sever any relationships but be aware nines you tend
to attract people who are needy and if you don’t manage that well they’re likely to take what you
need to face your own life in these moments and so it’s okay it it is okay if you need to say no
occasionally well clint i’d say to those who are joining us if you’ve made it this far in this
conversation you deserve a prize of some kind it’s a privilege that you would stick through
this conversation with us not just today but the whole enneagram conversation i guess i’d just say
personally i think this has been incredibly enriching it’s been challenging in some really
constructive ways but i also think as it has come in this moment of our shared life together
it’s really an open door it really is an opportunity for all of us to begin a new kind
of journey and i i’m certain there’s stuff that we’ve shared here today that that misses the mark
i mean we’re not enneagram experts but if there’s anything good in what you’ve heard not just today
but across these conversations i hope that you will hold on to the good and let go of the bad
and that you’ll be encouraged to let this spur you on in your faith as a disciple
yeah i hope you found something in this helpful i recently listened to a very interesting
youtube video a presentation about the enneagram from some very conservative christians who
tried to make the case that the enneagram was incompatible with christianity and i’ll just say
that obviously we don’t come out there or we wouldn’t be doing this i find the enneagram lives
exactly at the intersection for presbyterian christians that matters the confession
that we all start broken that every one of us has some inner flaw and that those flaws if left unchecked
will will direct our life in unhealthy ways and secondly that as followers of jesus christ who
are redeemed our invitation in him is to improve to constantly chase a better self that is more
reflective of his grace and his presence and his love and mercy in our lives and we are continually
invited to grow and i find the enneagram helpful in both of those conversations and i find it
meets us at the intersection of those two themes in a way that personally i think is both
challenging but beneficial and so i hope that’s been something of your experience we would love
to continue this conversation michael and i are both you know several books and lots of hours deep
into this thing so if you ever want to talk enneagram call us email us or when this is all
over maybe we’ll sit down and have a powwow but thank you for joining us we will continue to be
putting out podcasts you’ll get some information about that coming up but we’ve enjoyed this
and look forward to the next series so thanks for being a part of it next series starts next
wednesday we’ll be releasing a more information will come out about what that’s going to be but
we’re excited about it it’s going to be a fun conversation and we look forward to seeing you
there that said thanks for being with us today and god bless as we continue to learn and grow
and take together see ya