John 16:1-4

00:00:00:48 – 00:00:23:22
Clint Loveall
Hey, everybody. Thanks for being with us. Happy Ash Wednesday, and thank you for joining us. As we continue through the gospel of John, we move into the 16th chapter. And, I’ll say two things about our passage today, or at least the first part, if we depending on how long it takes us, a we probably should have done it yesterday and included it with yesterday’s reading.

00:00:23:27 – 00:00:48:29
Clint Loveall
And I might even go so far as to say it should be included in the 15th chapter. This is an odd place structurally to break the chapter, but a little bit of recap. Yesterday, Jesus is warning the disciples that the times ahead will be difficult for them and that the world has, harbored, a resentment, a hatred, he calls it, toward Jesus.

00:00:48:34 – 00:01:08:04
Clint Loveall
And so that the disciples should not be surprised when that gets pointed at them as well. And today he he adds to that a little bit. So let me read just a few verses here and we’ll go back and give it some context. I have said these things to you to keep you from stumbling. They will put you out of the synagogues.

00:01:08:04 – 00:01:31:54
Clint Loveall
Indeed, an hour is coming when they will kill you, and they will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God. And they will do this because they have not known the father or me. But I have said these things to you, so that when that hour comes, you may remember that I told you about it.

00:01:31:58 – 00:01:52:42
Clint Loveall
So again, this is very much an extension of what Jesus had said. Jesus said, you know, there will be a time when you’re at odds with the world. And now Jesus points out, for the disciples and for the church that’s listening in to these words later, how difficult those days will be. They’ll put you out of the synagogue.

00:01:52:42 – 00:02:18:22
Clint Loveall
And this is this is a powerful sentence, I think, Michael, they will kill you. And that is as if that’s not a strong enough statement. They will think they’re worshiping God. By doing so, they will justify what they do and the they hear is clearly the Jewish religious authorities. That’s the people that Jesus is fighting with in the early wave of the evolution of the church.

00:02:18:26 – 00:02:49:49
Clint Loveall
That’s the people that Christians are struggling with. The Roman opposition comes later. John likely reflects the Gospel of John, likely reflects a time where there significant tension between Jewish religion and Christian religion. And I think that’s a stunning statement. They will think they are offering worship by doing so. And so, I suppose one of the things this does is to intensify yesterday’s words.

00:02:49:49 – 00:03:10:45
Clint Loveall
You know, it’s one thing to think that there’ll be some general conflict and some rough patches between the world and the faith, but this is at times Jesus says, life or death. Again, if you know the gospel story, we’re headed to the cross. Maybe it’s not particularly surprising, but I think these are sobering words.

00:03:10:49 – 00:03:37:10
Michael Gewecke
Yeah, it is really hard for us to get our mind around. I think the the schism of what’s happening here. But bear with me for a minute. What Jesus is saying is that when you consider yourself because remember, the earliest church thought of themselves as being Jewish Christians, that they thought of synagogue as a place that that worked with the faith, right?

00:03:37:10 – 00:04:06:10
Michael Gewecke
That Jesus himself taught where in the synagogue. So that was the context of being people of faith. But here in our text, it is made abundantly clear that that there will come a day when you can no longer think of those things as being synonymous, that those two things can’t live in the same context. That’s a heart rending reality for the earliest Christians, and I do think it’s wise that we connect this to the why.

00:04:06:21 – 00:04:26:57
Michael Gewecke
Why is this going to be your experience? And that is connected to verse 27. If you lead us off, Clint, with the idea that we should have included these together, I think that 27 is a classic example. Why? Because you are going to testify, because you’ve been with me in the beginning. And what will that test of, testifying result in?

00:04:27:01 – 00:04:56:16
Michael Gewecke
It’s going to result in this reality in the world. It’s going to change your relationship with the people who you’ve always thought to be brothers and sisters in the faith. And I just think that that separation, the cost of following Jesus, John is not shy about John is not saying that that Christians are going to get there because they want it, or that Christians are going to have sought out their own pain.

00:04:56:21 – 00:05:21:18
Michael Gewecke
He’s he’s not saying that Christians are going to find themselves opposite the world, because the gospel somehow makes us people who, put ourselves in position of always being in paint. No, it’s that when we testify to the truth of who Jesus is, that will create the very same division that John has exemplified Jesus having with those religious leaders the entire way.

00:05:21:30 – 00:05:43:31
Michael Gewecke
And and so his commandments that Jesus just gave just a few verses ago about love, about how we’re going to love one another, we’re going to love, as Jesus has demonstrated, that kind of love that that becomes the sinew that holds it all together, that that’s what keeps Christian community strong in the midst of a world that doesn’t know what to do with it.

00:05:43:31 – 00:06:13:46
Michael Gewecke
When the world presses in with that pressure, even pressure that’s going to look to the Lord from the world’s eyes is doing good. It’s actually bringing glory and praise to God. That’s the kind of thing that that Christians are going to have to bow up under. And the way that we’ll do it, by the power of the spirit at work, we had that yesterday and of course, the fruits of love growing within that community, that that’s the way that Christians repel the force of the world and the separation and the pain and all these things.

00:06:13:46 – 00:06:15:20
Michael Gewecke
We’re talking about.

00:06:15:25 – 00:06:44:42
Clint Loveall
I think I think there are just sort of, in a general sense of thinking about our discipleship. My goal, I think there are probably two mistakes that Christians make when it comes to verses like this. And and the one is to be obsessed with them and, and sort of look for conflict. Right. That the idea that, oh, someone made fun of me for going to church, that that’s persecution.

00:06:44:47 – 00:07:12:25
Clint Loveall
We in America are so blessed that we sometimes take for granted the idea that we can worship publicly. You and I, hundreds and hundreds of times have come to this church. Never once, not a single moment spent wondering if somebody would show up and stop us, if someone would cast us off it. Never once fearing that it would be discovered, we put it on our sign.

00:07:12:25 – 00:07:59:15
Clint Loveall
We put it in the paper if it’s on our website. Right. And and so on one hand, we can minimize the idea of opposition to those things that just frustrate us, you know? Oh, my uncle, who’s not a Christian, makes fun of the faith. Well. Oh, okay. But but I think that that minimizes true persecution. And the other mistake, and maybe the one that Americans are more often guilty of, is to think that our situation is normative and to forget that there are places in the world today, right, that remain dangerous for Christians.

00:07:59:20 – 00:08:30:41
Clint Loveall
There are Christians who risk their lives to worship and own and own Bibles and read Scripture together and have worship together. That that that is dangerous in parts of our world. And I think an awareness of that helps us a to keep our own minor struggles in proper perspective, but also leads us to pray and to support and to reach out to those who are struggling.

00:08:30:41 – 00:08:57:43
Clint Loveall
And I think one of the disconnects of our experience and again, we are so blessed. But the Scripture is written in a time that reflects the risk. This is a life and death decision that these people are making at times to follow Christ. And you know, Jesus says it here. I’ve told you this so that when it comes, you may remember what I’ve said.

00:08:57:52 – 00:09:30:30
Clint Loveall
You can be ready. And again, we believe, John, to have been written in a time that the church is experiencing some persecution. And so these words and these themes become massively important in the early evolutions of the church, in which it is a risk, it is a struggle. It costs these people something. It is a chance that they take when they put their faith and they live their life as, as a Christian.

00:09:30:30 – 00:09:51:00
Clint Loveall
And so, I, I think I don’t know exactly what we do with these passages, but I think they’re important because they give us they give us both, hopefully some courage, some awareness. But I think also some perspective.

00:09:51:05 – 00:10:37:24
Michael Gewecke
This is a thing that John has done now a couple times that I find really beautiful and I really appreciate is, is John. And look at this language explicitly in verse four. I’ve said these things to you so that when their hour comes, you may remember, right, we know that this gospel is being given to us by John, so that we have what we need as people of faith to know who Jesus is and the honesty of this gospel is to say that there’s a lot of things that the disciples did not understand when they heard them, but in Jesus’s own wording, I want this said so that when the time comes, you will remember

00:10:37:24 – 00:11:22:31
Michael Gewecke
this conversation. You’ll remember that when I was with you, I promised an advocate. When I was with you, I told you that the servant will not be greater than the master, that when I was with you I said times of persecution would come, so that when the doubt comes, when the struggle is great, when your life is literally being asked of you, that you might know that this request has not been unseen, that that this cost has not been missed, but that rather you are stepping in, in firm view of the providence of what God has already laid out of what Jesus said would happen, that you stand on firm ground and that your witness

00:11:22:33 – 00:11:45:46
Michael Gewecke
is grounded in reality. That’s what John’s trying to do, is it’s trying to show that Jesus is not just teaching those people in the room that night. Jesus is looking ahead to those who will follow him and is making very clear he is just as much Lord, when the road is difficult as that when he’s Lord, when he’s with you in the room.

00:11:45:46 – 00:12:09:25
Michael Gewecke
And I think the text goes on, you know, as we’ll continue, in this study, we’re going to discover that Jesus is going to say more about the reality of that. But I think at this stage, we we would be wise, I think, to hear in Jesus’s words, not a call to go out with, with, some sort of immaturity or to look for trouble.

00:12:09:30 – 00:12:18:09
Michael Gewecke
But the reality is that we might have confidence that when trouble inevitably finds us, that Jesus is the Lord still in that moment.

00:12:18:18 – 00:12:44:19
Clint Loveall
At at no level is the goal to be persecuted. The goal is to be faithful. And if if that faithfulness comes in the midst of persecution, then we should not be surprised, because while all the Gospels. While all the Gospels include this theme, John maybe most passionately portrays Jesus as the one who is faithful in the midst of opposition.

00:12:44:24 – 00:13:21:04
Clint Loveall
We’ve seen intense conflicts already here, and I think maybe, perhaps more intensely than they are portrayed at the same place in the other gospel accounts. You know that you could argue that. But John has wanted us to know from the very beginning that Jesus presses on in the face of significant opposition so that he can be faithful to his calling so that he can be faithful to his mission and his personhood as the Messiah, his role as the Son of God.

00:13:21:09 – 00:13:50:17
Clint Loveall
And we now are going to inherit that. And so the idea isn’t to go out there and find suffering and then pat ourselves on the back because we found it. The idea is to be faithful and not shocked when being faithful sometimes invites difficulty with it, because the world doesn’t love faithfulness and Jesus lines that out here explicitly and again in a culture.

00:13:50:22 – 00:14:35:57
Clint Loveall
Where? There’s not a great deal of true risk to be a Christian, I, I think we both want to be grateful for that. Aware of how that might lead us to complacency, and certainly understand that that’s not the case for everyone there. There are brothers and sisters who live under the reality of risk because they follow Christ. And if that’s not us in the moment we’re in, then we should be both thankful and aware of of supporting, encouraging and praying for those for whom it is true.

00:14:36:01 – 00:14:40:53
Michael Gewecke
I’m certainly conscious, Clint, that yeah, we’ve not made it many verses here today.

00:14:41:00 – 00:14:42:30
Clint Loveall
I think that’s okay for Ash Wednesday.

00:14:42:30 – 00:15:06:10
Michael Gewecke
But I do think that there’s there’s some wisdom in even honing in on verse three here. Since we’ve got the time, they will do this because they’ve not known the father or me. And I submit to you and push back on this clip. I submit to you that this is a very good rubric for measuring whatever sense of persecution we might have.

00:15:06:11 – 00:15:35:52
Michael Gewecke
If you are in a position in which you find yourself meeting headwind because of the faith, you might ask yourself, is this because I know the father? And is this because I know the son? Are you acting like Jesus acts? Because, Clint, you and I both know that there are people who call themselves persecuted Christians who are acting far outside the ethic of Jesus Christ, who are living outside the kingdom way of living, of faithfulness that that’s existed in all times and places.

00:15:35:52 – 00:16:00:56
Michael Gewecke
That’s just a reality of being human, that we’re tempted to make it about us instead about the one who calls us to the cross. So. So I think the rubric then becomes very powerful. Yeah. Are we being, called to account because we are testifying to Jesus Christ who came, gave, died, sacrificed and gave up? Are we giving testimony to God who is Almighty and the one whom we follow, and the one who has grace and mercy and love for all?

00:16:01:01 – 00:16:36:12
Michael Gewecke
Or are we in some way seeking for power, for fame, for privilege, for accumulate of all kinds, for our own benefit? That rubric matters in the midst of persecution, especially in our context. I think you know, you’re right to point out there are countries in our modern world today where simply possessing the Bible, but the collection of books that have been preserved and given to us by the historic faith as as a way to see the revelation of Jesus Christ simply possessing that book is on.

00:16:36:12 – 00:17:03:05
Michael Gewecke
It is in itself enough to to cause the giving of your life. I think for Christians who don’t fear that we find ourselves tempted by this gradual scale of what persecution is and what it isn’t. And I think the rubric of persecution is Christlike. If it is that thing known by the father and known by the son, if it resonates with their character, that is where Christians are called to be.

00:17:03:05 – 00:17:19:10
Michael Gewecke
That’s what to be a disciple means to be a follower. To be a Christian means to be a little Christ. That should be our sole focus. Instead of taking pride in whatever difficulty of faith we might be having, as some are want to do.

00:17:19:15 – 00:17:55:48
Clint Loveall
I think historically, this idea and this word persecution has been very serious and has had. Sometimes life threatening ramifications. And so when we apply that word to lesser struggles and lesser challenges, I think we need to certainly be conscious that we’re doing that. And I think we need to be careful in not, undervaluing what the church has historically spoken of.

00:17:55:53 – 00:18:34:40
Clint Loveall
And certainly I think what the Scripture speaks of as persecution. We may all hit some bumps in the road because we are Christian and probably should if we’re being faithful, but not all of them will rise to the level of what the Scripture and and church history has typically called persecution. And we we want to be careful so that we don’t minimize the idea that there really have been and currently are, people who risk their very lives more than, you know, discomfort, more than inconvenience, more than disagreement.

00:18:34:45 – 00:19:04:28
Clint Loveall
The gospel has been dangerous for people, and we just want to be very careful, including ourselves in that for lesser reasons. I think that does a disservice to them and us again, while simultaneously saying that our faith should disconnect us from the world that places and right and we should experience some differences and some discomforts because of it, which I think we want to be careful how we talk.

00:19:04:28 – 00:19:24:48
Michael Gewecke
About those don’t oversimplify things that have depth. And also, I would say, be mindful that the people who lose their life for the faith are not losing it because they’re carrying an NIV Bible instead of a noise free Bible. It’s because they claim Jesus. I mean, that’s the it boils down to the one that they claim to be Lord.

00:19:24:48 – 00:19:46:53
Michael Gewecke
And so it sometimes we get fixated on details if we’re people in the faith. But but know that simply who we call Lord is in most cases the dividing line. And that is that’s a life oriented choice that we’ve made. And, and those who make it can often and have often found the implications of that choice.

00:19:47:00 – 00:20:03:18
Clint Loveall
Yeah, we have the luxury and therefore the challenge of living out our faith in a mostly non dangerous context. And so that that brings with it some, some particular difficulties that we have to navigate.

00:20:03:23 – 00:20:20:06
Michael Gewecke
That’s not enough for today. We’re glad that you’re with us. Hope that this conversation has been helpful, challenging, meaningful for you. I give it a like if it has, well, I can’t tell you strongly enough how much that matters in terms of other people being able to find the study. After we are done together. So I hope you’ll do that.

00:20:20:18 – 00:20:26:43
Michael Gewecke
Subscribe so you can stay with us on the journey. We will be back tomorrow and look forward to continuing on through the Gospel of John.

00:20:26:43 – 00:20:48:28
Clint Loveall
Just want to add, if you are not in our first press community and you’re interested in these kind of conversations, we will be offering an Ash Wednesday devotion this evening. It will just be online. It won’t be live. But, if these are kind of thoughts that you’re interested in and you’re not in our community, we’re grateful that you listen.

00:20:48:28 – 00:20:54:20
Clint Loveall
And if you’d like to hear more, that will be up on our on our website. You’ll find links later on in the day.

00:20:54:25 – 00:20:55:51
Michael Gewecke
We will see you all tomorrow.