John 16:25-33

00:00:00:46 – 00:00:19:19
Clint Loveall
Hey, everybody, thanks for joining us. Grateful to have you with us as we continue through the Gospel of John. Today we’re picking up in the 16th chapter, 25th verse. We’ll read through the end of the chapter, come back and, go through a little more slowly. I’ve said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming.

00:00:19:19 – 00:00:37:43
Clint Loveall
When I will no longer speak to you in figures. But I will tell you plainly of the father. On that day you will ask in my name. I do not say to you that I will ask the father on your behalf. For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came from God.

00:00:37:48 – 00:00:59:39
Clint Loveall
I came from the father, and have come into the world again. I am leaving the world and going to the father. His disciples said yes. Now you are speaking plainly, not in any figure of speech. Now we know that you know all things and do not need to have anyone question you. By this we believe that you came from God.

00:00:59:43 – 00:01:22:26
Clint Loveall
Jesus answered them. Do you now believe the hour is coming? Indeed, it has come when you will be scattered, each one of you, to his own home, and you will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the father is with me. I have said this to you, so that in me you may have peace. In the world you will face persecution.

00:01:22:26 – 00:01:51:12
Clint Loveall
But take courage. I have overcome the world. So as we move into this part of the text, and again, a place where I would say, John shows a tendency to kind of repeat himself or in Jesus. The Jesus words in John are often repetitive here. Jesus says, you know, I’ll no longer speak. I’m going to speak plainly to you.

00:01:51:13 – 00:02:20:39
Clint Loveall
That’s coming. Ironically enough, I don’t find those words particularly plain. But the disciples say yes. Finally. Now you’re speaking in in plain words, not in a figure of speech. Now we know what you’re talking about. And then, of course, Jesus says, well, you think you do. But today, the time is coming where you’re all going to sort of abandon me.

00:02:20:44 – 00:02:57:46
Clint Loveall
I’ve confessed this before, Michael. These are the moments I don’t always know exactly what to do with the Gospel of John. It seems to me that the takeaway here is twofold. That just as we saw yesterday, that a time of joy is coming. So is a time of understanding. So is a time of clarity, and that the work of the spirit will continue to work, to make Jesus plain and to help translate and help followers of Jesus understand.

00:02:57:46 – 00:03:22:52
Clint Loveall
And later on, when we build Presbyterian and Reformed theology, we are ancestors. Those would be very important concepts to them that not only does the spirit move us to know Christ, but it helps us discern and understand what it means to know Christ and to follow him. And I suppose some of that may be foreshadowed here.

00:03:22:57 – 00:03:53:27
Michael Gewecke
So the reality is that if you were reading this scripture outside of this study, that it’s highly likely that you get into this section late chapter 16, also some of 17, where I do think that Jesus’s words and the lessons do become somewhat undulating, but the image that comes to mind for me is like a wave, and it’s like it just kind of keeps coming up to a cross to then comes back down.

00:03:53:27 – 00:04:14:15
Michael Gewecke
And I think it is very easy when reading John to get put on autopilot, because Jesus starts saying things and those things start to sound a little similar to what you’ve heard before, but maybe it’s a little different, and then you just keep plowing through it, and before long you find yourselves kind of reading really quickly and skipping things.

00:04:14:15 – 00:04:39:50
Michael Gewecke
I think that this section, it would be very much subject to that as well. This, this idea about speaking and figures of speech, and then the disciples saying, hey, now you’re not. Oh, now we get it when the reality is that they, Jesus, is going to follow up and say, you. You may understand it in some way, but you clearly are not going to understand fully because there’s going to be this hour of persecution.

00:04:39:50 – 00:05:10:22
Michael Gewecke
There’s going to be a moment of you being scattered. I think one way to engage a text like this and to recognize what Jesus is doing and how John is relaying that to us is, for me, somewhat akin to like a children’s sermon in a worship service where you have the kids come up front and someone might be teaching them a lesson, but simultaneously, everyone in the congregation is listening to that.

00:05:10:22 – 00:05:34:24
Michael Gewecke
They’re they’re listening in, they’re overhearing that conversation with the kids. And so the thing that is being delivered ostensibly to these kids is also being overheard and delivered to to the whole. And I get the sense, Clint, that that John wants these words of Jesus known by everyone. Right. Like this is very clearly being broadcast in the gospel itself.

00:05:34:24 – 00:06:01:39
Michael Gewecke
So the idea that the disciples do or don’t get it seems to me to be less important than the fact that Jesus is making explicitly clear that the hour is coming. The scattering is yet to have happened, and ultimately, Jesus is going to be made alone, that the church is going to experience persecution, that there will need to be courage, taken up in the days to come.

00:06:01:53 – 00:06:25:35
Michael Gewecke
This is then in that frame, if you’re willing to look at it in that way, that this text becomes a kind of prophetic insight as to what will happen, and a promise from Jesus that even when it happens, even when you’re surprised by the scattering and the persecution, take heart. A be people of courage. I’ve already conquered the world.

00:06:25:44 – 00:06:38:22
Michael Gewecke
There’s a kind of, I think, overhearing of what Jesus said that night, so that the church later could understand its implications for what is going to happen well beyond this night.

00:06:38:27 – 00:07:04:03
Clint Loveall
I think you can see that if you follow the text, Mark, I mean, you just you walk through this as the reader, right? That the hours coming. I’m telling you, I’m from the father. I want you to believe that there’s a sense in which the reader could say, well, I already believe that. I know that I accept that this gospel has told me that 45 times already.

00:07:04:03 – 00:07:04:21
Michael Gewecke
Right?

00:07:04:26 – 00:07:48:36
Clint Loveall
Yeah. And then the voice of the disciples say, yes, we get it. And Jesus says, be careful, because when you think you understand, you’re going to be tested, you’re going to be scattered and there’s an almost sermon like quality to this, a warning for the rest of us that we should exercise extreme caution whenever we think we get Jesus, whenever we think we have Jesus figured out, it is a very likely, almost certainly we find ourselves falling short of that.

00:07:48:36 – 00:08:12:50
Clint Loveall
And I, I think that’s not the way the text is presented. But for those of us who come later knowing the whole story and read it, I think it’s one of the places it challenges us to make sure that we understand that there’s always another aspect of Jesus that we haven’t yet seen. There’s always another challenge to our faith.

00:08:12:50 – 00:08:27:07
Clint Loveall
There’s always another step forward in our discipleship. We’ve never arrived and as we hear in microcosm, Jesus tell the disciples that I think that same word lands on each of us.

00:08:27:12 – 00:08:58:21
Michael Gewecke
I do think and you mentioned this already, the reformed tradition, which is where we’re rooted, is going to be particularly connected, I think, to this teaching because of the way that it functions in the text. I really do believe that there is a kind of gift here that Jesus is teaching these disciples, a very difficult thing, which they want to understand, but clearly they cannot grasp the whole, breadth of it.

00:08:58:26 – 00:09:26:45
Michael Gewecke
There’s a kind of honesty about the fact that humans are finite, that humans, because of our lack of imagination and because of our lack of faith and because of our guilt and sinfulness and all these things that that we are at at our core, not faithful interpreters of everything that we have been told. And I think that this text, in a very real way, is honest about that.

00:09:26:45 – 00:09:46:26
Michael Gewecke
Jesus, you know, goes out of his way to say, even though you will be scattered, you will leave me alone. I’m not alone because the father is with me. There’s a kind of grace in that. There’s a kind of forward looking forgiveness right there, even though you all are going to leave me alone. Don’t worry. I’m not alone.

00:09:46:26 – 00:10:09:16
Michael Gewecke
The father is with me. And then what’s going to follow here in chapter 17, the next text immediately after this and this just flows one to the other, is Jesus is going to advocate to the father on behalf of the disciples. Jesus is literally going to pray for these fallible, broken, don’t always get it right. Discip pulls and that matters, right?

00:10:09:16 – 00:10:28:33
Michael Gewecke
Jesus both knows our frame. He knows that were weak. He knows that we’re human. He’s not ashamed of that. He’s not surprised by that. He is just going to go to the father and pray. He’s going to send an advocate, each going to pray to the father on our behalf. This is the kind of accommodation that Jesus is making for the disciples.

00:10:28:33 – 00:10:42:54
Michael Gewecke
And I think this text, maybe, you know, you may not say that in explicit sort of language, but in terms of the way that it functions in the Gospel of John, I think that’s one meaning you could take from it.

00:10:42:59 – 00:11:06:25
Clint Loveall
I, I think this is related. I so follow me here, Michael, you I think you’re probably a little better with the Gospel of John than I am, but I think this last verse here, it gives us an insight into how it is that John writes this book. So he’s just said, you’ll leave me alone, you’ll be scattered, and you will leave me alone.

00:11:06:25 – 00:11:44:42
Clint Loveall
But I’m not alone because the father is with me. And then the very next verse, as I’ve said this to you, so that you may have peace. Well, I, I think you have to understand, John, doesn’t mean the thing Jesus just said. John means this whole two chapters we’ve been looking at, right, that that there’s persecution coming to love one another, to find joy, really probably a better I don’t know about translation, but maybe a better presentation would be I have said these things to you in order that you may have peace in the world.

00:11:44:42 – 00:12:12:14
Clint Loveall
You face persecution, but take courage. I have conquered the world. That is a beautiful verse and beautiful sentiment, but it’s out of step with the verse that immediately precedes it. And I think that is one of the tricky part of John. John is often combining things and and chunking things together in a way that you, you just have to be aware of.

00:12:12:14 – 00:12:32:33
Clint Loveall
Because if you read this and you think it’s the thing Jesus just said, it doesn’t make sense. You’ll be scattered. You’re all going to leave me. But I’m telling you that so you can have peace. Well, that that’s not at all what Jesus means. We know that isn’t what Jesus means from the broader context that we’ve been working our way through.

00:12:32:33 – 00:12:44:25
Clint Loveall
And I, I just think it’s the kind of thing that John does that you need to be aware of. If it to help even out some of the rough spots of the way that he writes.

00:12:44:30 – 00:13:06:46
Michael Gewecke
I well, there’s also a really helpful tool in Bible study, I think, is when the author goes out of their way to explicitly tell you what the effect of these words should be, that that should not be pass by. And here we have that in verse 33, I have said this to you, so that. Right, that should jump off the page either.

00:13:06:46 – 00:13:29:52
Michael Gewecke
So if you went on the autopilot at some point previous, and now you get to the so that you should tune in here. Right? We should be razor focused so that in me you can have peace in the world you’re going to face persecution. But take courage. I’ve come to the world peace and courage. These are the outcomes that Jesus is saying is going to happen because of this teaching.

00:13:30:03 – 00:14:11:51
Michael Gewecke
That becomes a very helpful North Star in the interpretive work of the text. What Jesus is saying here is supposed to work within us peace and courage. Well, what does I have to say about the context? Probably that the disciples would tend towards fear instead of peace and that they would have a moment in which their courage would flag, when they might actually feel like they wouldn’t have the courage for the moment, that that is a critical component of understanding the larger thing that John is relaying to us through these teachings of Jesus, that at the end of the day, this should inspire within us the awareness that no matter the tumult or the trial,

00:14:11:56 – 00:14:35:06
Michael Gewecke
or no matter how weak we might feel at this moment, peace and courage are with us because of Jesus Christ, because he’s provided that for us, that, you know, he’s given us this teaching. We have belief. I you know, and that’s the thing that John does that I find so interesting as an interpreter, when when we have this, you’re now speaking plainly.

00:14:35:11 – 00:14:56:25
Michael Gewecke
We know that you know all things. We don’t need anyone to come with any more questions. Well, the John is saying that. And yet we know that that because of the way John’s told this story, the disciples don’t have all of their questions answered. They would love to come to Jesus with more questions. I think that brings with it its own form of anxiety.

00:14:56:25 – 00:15:26:52
Michael Gewecke
Not knowing the fact that Jesus is completely always subverting the expectations. The disciples think that that they should be able to have is not going to lead them naturally to courage. What? What is Jesus say? I am telling you, even when you’re scattered, I am not alone. God the Father is with me. The great good news is that I’ve told you this, so that when it happens, you will have peace, so that you know, even in the face of persecution, you will have courage.

00:15:26:58 – 00:15:46:16
Michael Gewecke
You know there is an outcome that is being led here. All right. Sorry. That’s not a good way to say that there’s an outcome that John is leading us to through the path that Jesus is taking the disciples. And I think if you can see where the outcome is, it helps shed light on the path that came before.

00:15:46:21 – 00:16:16:06
Clint Loveall
Right? And that is anchored in Jesus victory. I have conquered the world. And because that is true, Jesus implies that that’s where the disciples will find peace. Courage. If we read back into yesterday’s text, they will find joy. It is in the work of Jesus. It is not in the world. And John is very adamant about that, that what we find in Christ, we cannot find in the world.

00:16:16:08 – 00:16:49:33
Clint Loveall
The world is against the things of Christ. That’s how John uses the term world here. John is not anti people. He’s not anti humanity. But when he uses the word world, he has in mind those parts of human experience and those parts of humanity that are opposed to what God is doing in Jesus Christ. But for those of us who understand, for those of us who might even be bold enough to say with the disciples, we get it now.

00:16:49:42 – 00:17:10:28
Clint Loveall
Yeah, the result is because Jesus has conquered. We find the courage and the peace and the joy to live our life, even when life is difficult and the world pushes back on the faith. And, that that’s a wonderful series of connections that John helps us make.

00:17:10:35 – 00:17:43:06
Michael Gewecke
I’m not going to steal. I’ll save this for tomorrow. But it’s important when you see a text transitioning like this, I’ve conquered the world. And then after he says this, then he begins the prayer. I think it’s really important that we really make this connection here, that ultimately that this is all one thing, that Jesus has conquered the world and the hour is coming, which is what we’re going to transition to tomorrow, that Jesus is setting into motion the end of all things.

00:17:43:06 – 00:18:08:49
Michael Gewecke
Clinton, I you’ve said this so many times throughout this study that Jesus isn’t surprised by the events in this book, and Jesus institutes the hours within this book. This is even the theme of light and darkness is connected to that idea. And so it’s important that we recognize here when Jesus says, I’ve conquered the world, he he is leading us into a cosmic secret.

00:18:09:01 – 00:18:40:17
Michael Gewecke
He’s showing us cosmic revelation of what God is doing in him. And then there’s this awareness that Jesus then, having said, this, is now going to institute the turning of the time. He’s going to begin the process of his glorification. He’s going to institute the scattering because of his actions in some ways. And I think there’s a kind of there’s a kind of accommodation to go back to that word that we started with today of our human inability to see the whole.

00:18:40:17 – 00:19:02:36
Michael Gewecke
Jesus accommodates that by looking ahead and telling us what will be the case, so that when that comes, the witness that we have will be deeply rooted in him and not the world will. We will have his understanding of what this all means, as opposed to what the world is going to interpret it to be, which is, you know, in the case of persecution, these Christians are backwards.

00:19:02:36 – 00:19:22:35
Michael Gewecke
These Christians are worshiping, foreign God. They’re doing these horrible rituals, which is the things levied against the first generation of Christians. No, Jesus predicts the persecution. And he says, even when I look alone, I’m never alone. I’ve conquered the world. So I there’s a lot happening here. And, you know, I don’t want to go further than that.

00:19:22:35 – 00:19:48:51
Clint Loveall
Yeah. I just maybe leave one word here in verse 33. I’ve said this to you so that in me you will have peace. And I think that’s a vital word for Christians. Peace, as we understand it in the gospel, is not found in the world. It’s not found in military, it’s not found in money or security or possessions or job.

00:19:48:55 – 00:20:16:55
Clint Loveall
Peace, biblically speaking, is found in Christ and in his work. And it there may be other moments of peacefulness, but as we understand peace as disciples, it is found at really alone in Jesus, in Christ alone. That is the place that we look for peace, and the only place that we would truly find it.

00:20:17:00 – 00:20:37:28
Michael Gewecke
That we may be closing out. Chapter 16. But we have, no belief that we’ve in any way comprehensively covered this chapter. If this study, this section has been meaningful for you, certainly give this video a like, certainly go down to the comments and let us know if you have thoughts or questions. But friends, you subscribe because we will continue.

00:20:37:28 – 00:20:43:40
Michael Gewecke
Tomorrow we’ll turn the page to chapter 17. We’ll continue this study through John together and look forward to seeing you then.

00:20:43:42 – 00:20:44:29
Clint Loveall
Thanks, everybody.