John 18:28-38

00:00:00:46 – 00:00:34:55
Clint Loveall
Hey, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for, continuing to be with us. And, and, grateful to have you in this journey as we go through the gospel of John. We are moving toward the end of the 18th chapter. We’re in the 28th verse today. As Jesus makes his stand before Pilate. Pilate is a kind of regional governor and plays a significant role in the story of Jesus and, interesting role in John’s telling of it.

00:00:35:00 – 00:00:57:15
Clint Loveall
Let me read. Let me read a chunk here, and then we’ll come back and talk it through. Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to pilot’s headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters so as to avoid ritual defilement and be able to eat the Passover. So Pilate went out to them and said, what accusation do you bring against a man?

00:00:57:19 – 00:01:17:49
Clint Loveall
He answered, if this man were not. They answered, if this man were not a criminal, we would not have handed him over to you. Pilot said to them, take him yourselves, and judge according to your law. The Jews replied, we are not permitted to put anyone to death. This was to fulfill what Jesus had said, and when it was indicated the kind of death he was to die.

00:01:17:54 – 00:01:39:29
Clint Loveall
Then Pilate entered the headquarters again, summoned Jesus, and asked him, are you the King of the Jews? Jesus answered, you ask this on your own? Or did others tell you about me? Pilate replied, I’m not a Jew, am I your own nation? And the chief priests have handed you over to me. What have you done? Jesus answered, my kingdom is not from this world.

00:01:39:34 – 00:02:01:30
Clint Loveall
If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here. Pilate then said, so you are a king. Jesus answered, you say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I came into the world to testify to the truth.

00:02:01:35 – 00:02:40:39
Clint Loveall
Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice. Pilate asked him, what is truth? So, an interesting interaction here with Jesus. And we have primarily seen Jesus with Roman or. Excuse me, with Jewish figures. Now we see power through the eyes of Rome, the empire. Pilate represents the empire here. And interestingly enough, right off the bat, John gives us a little dig here that you could miss when he tells us that the Jews, won’t go into headquarters.

00:02:40:39 – 00:03:10:00
Clint Loveall
They won’t go into pilots place, because that would render them unclean, and they wouldn’t be able to keep the holiday. So there, there is this sense that these people who are against Jesus are concerned about all the wrong things. They’re concerned about quote unquote, kind of keeping the rules. And and, John, I think, in a subtle way, is showing us here that they’re misguided at best, hypocritical at worst.

00:03:10:04 – 00:03:29:39
Clint Loveall
And then we have and we have, different versions of the interactions with Pilate in all the Gospels. But in all the Gospels, Pilate makes an appearance. And here, Michael, the interchange between Jesus and Pilate, I think, is telling.

00:03:29:43 – 00:03:57:43
Michael Gewecke
Yeah. No, absolutely. And it’s intentional. The way that John has told this story, I think, is indicative of a very soured relationship with the Jews that that came many, many years, you know, even after the the writing of John as a book that was received by the later church is fast fading that you see here the pilot and the Jews being cast in these particular roles.

00:03:57:43 – 00:04:32:13
Michael Gewecke
And I think it’s subtle, but a pilot’s response, verse 35, I’m not a Jew, am I your own nation? And the chief priests have handed you over to me. And by the way, this is the guy who had to leave the headquarters to go talk to those Jews because they were unwilling to walk through the door. I mean, this is this is a military political figure, a man with immense power having to deal in the dirt and rabble of sort of local politics and trying to manage very, very hostile and very unwelcoming groups of people.

00:04:32:23 – 00:04:53:19
Michael Gewecke
He’s very much trying to keep it all tamped down and contained. You can just imagine, I think, the way that John tells the story, it’s it doesn’t have a ton of details, Clint, but you can just imagine so easily how how upset this guy is. He’s got to leave the headquarters to come and mess with all of this really minor detail kind of stuff of the people being upset.

00:04:53:24 – 00:05:20:09
Michael Gewecke
And here, you know, hey, I’m not the Jew. I’m not the problem. I don’t have a problem with you. So why are you here, then? Well, you know, ultimately convince me that you’re a problem. And I think it’s fascinating because Jesus’s response is classic. For all of the teachings that Jesus offers in the gospel, John, he does what he’s always done, whether it be with his disciples or the religious leaders or people before or after the miracle.

00:05:20:22 – 00:05:42:12
Michael Gewecke
And he gives this red leather teaching in which he says, well, my kingdom is not of this world. And if it was, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to, by the way, the Jews said not to you. That’s an interesting detail, but my kingdom, not from here. But pilot has a very attuned ear to anyone who claims that they aren’t subject to Rome.

00:05:42:12 – 00:06:15:51
Michael Gewecke
That’s his job. His allegiance is to the power structures that love his taxes, that keeps the people from rioting, revolting, that keeps all the instability because he’s been put there for that task by Rome. And it’s fascinating that Jesus, with this whole kingdom talk, is dancing around. It is right on the edge of the stuff that would make Pilate livid that this is the kind of stuff that people get crucified for by saying that they are going to rise above the true king, which is the Caesar, which is the leadership in Rome.

00:06:15:55 – 00:06:41:13
Michael Gewecke
But here Jesus is saying, yeah, but my kingdom’s not from here. And, you know, if it was, my people would be fighting to preserve an earthly kingdom. But they’re not. It’s a spiritual teaching given to the most physical, earthly, political guy. And I just think there’s a beautiful irony in Pilate, who’s upset with the Jewish leadership. And the Jewish leadership was trying to manipulate Pilate to get their way.

00:06:41:24 – 00:06:52:01
Michael Gewecke
And Jesus, who was doing something entirely different than all of that, because he’s testifying to the truth. He it’s a really messy, chaotic scene in the gospel.

00:06:52:10 – 00:07:21:41
Clint Loveall
It is. And I think John gives us an interesting picture. You know, there’s going to be quite a bit more from Pilate. We’re only about, at this point, maybe only halfway through the pilot material, maybe not even quite halfway through. And pilot’s role in the Gospel of John is really interesting. The question is Pilate responsible? Is Rome responsible?

00:07:21:41 – 00:07:55:14
Clint Loveall
Are the Jews responsible? Each gospel maybe gives a slightly different nuance on that. In John’s gospel, Pilate is, I push back. If you disagree, Michael, I would say Pilate is treated relatively favorably. He come, he converses with Jesus. He tries to let him go. In fact, on two different occasions in this narrative, that’ll be we’ll see that, not tomorrow, but Thursday.

00:07:55:19 – 00:08:41:44
Clint Loveall
I think John is continuing his tendency to lay blame for what’s happening to Jesus squarely at the feet of the Jewish leaders. And Pilate, though he has political and even some military power, he’s really kind of treated as a neutral in the way this story is told. Now, it’s possible that that because John is written later and and John wants to soften any thing that might anger the Roman government and lead them to persecute the church even more than was already happening.

00:08:41:49 – 00:09:05:46
Clint Loveall
It could also be related to this idea that John very much holds religious leaders accountable for what happened to Jesus, and it could be a combination of both of those things. But, I’ll leave it. I’ll leave it to our our listeners as we get done reading the whole story in the next days to come. But I.

00:09:05:51 – 00:09:10:06
Clint Loveall
I feel like pilot gets off the hook a little bit here in the Gospel of John.

00:09:10:15 – 00:09:29:24
Michael Gewecke
I got to be careful that we don’t get too far from the text here with conjecture, but I want to see how you respond to this. It seems to me that pilot is in many ways right in his judgment of Jesus. And this is what I mean by that. Pilot is right that Jesus is not a political threat against Rome.

00:09:29:29 – 00:09:52:39
Michael Gewecke
He’s right that Jesus is not come to do the thing that the hundreds of rebels before him have been trying to do, which is to rile the people up. But yeah, Trump, because Jesus in this teaching is explicit. My kingdom is not from here. And and you know, I think pilots question verse 38 is a unique question in the Gospel of John.

00:09:52:39 – 00:10:16:44
Michael Gewecke
And I think that we need to pause and experience the weight of it. Pilate asked him, what is truth? And it’s nearly the right question. It is so close to the right question. All that would need shape shifted would be who is truth to be able to fully see what’s happening in front of him? But even what is truth?

00:10:16:44 – 00:10:46:43
Michael Gewecke
Even that question? It exposes a willingness and desire to hear in a way that the Jewish leadership had never been portrayed as allowing or a place that they’ve either been willing to consider going. I think the fact that that you could read pilot as being cynical, you could read him as in some ways, having given up the idea that there is a foundation of truth that that one can live in.

00:10:46:48 – 00:11:18:05
Michael Gewecke
Even that, though, is a kind of charitable portrayal of the man. Because when he stands in front of Jesus and he asked that question whether or not that’s an earnest question, and he wants an answer, or whether that’s a throwaway question, and it’s just simply, yeah, what is truth? At the end of the day, he is engaging with a kind of depth almost a humility that might not be the right word, but certainly an openness to experiencing what’s happening in front of him that that the Jews have shown none of us up to this point in the story.

00:11:18:05 – 00:11:28:04
Michael Gewecke
And is that a pass? I don’t know that it’s a pass. I don’t think so. I just think it does portray him being right about Jesus in a way that even the Jews are not.

00:11:28:12 – 00:11:52:21
Clint Loveall
Yeah, no, I don’t think I, I don’t think it would be accurate to say that Pilate is innocent in John’s betrayal. Jesus is going to be flogged on his watch. He’s going I mean, Pilate has authority here, but there’s also a sense in which John paints Pilate as being backed into a corner. And that’s not unique to John.

00:11:52:31 – 00:12:14:15
Clint Loveall
The other gospels have some sense of that as well. And really, again, I think it comes down to this idea of while everyone may play a role, it is clear that it certainly in the Gospel of John, the driving force, are the religious leaders. And, we we don’t want to we don’t want to get bogged down there.

00:12:14:15 – 00:12:58:16
Clint Loveall
Michael, I do think there’s another important thing in this conversation. Jesus and Pilot have my kingdom is not of this world. John, as we’ve seen, draws a division between the world and the kingdom. And so Jesus is this rings very importantly, I think, in the Gospel of John, my kingdom is a different kind of kingdom. And and ironically, he says that to a man of earthly power who probably doesn’t get it, doesn’t understand, and for whom the question what is truth is also some indication that he doesn’t know the answer to that.

00:12:58:21 – 00:13:26:57
Clint Loveall
But John again loves this language, and I want you to notice, even as we go through this narrative, that this is told in such a way that Jesus is always the one, ultimately with authority and power and dignity. Jesus is truth, and therefore Jesus stands alone in the center. And it is a reversal of how you would look.

00:13:27:01 – 00:13:54:03
Clint Loveall
You have chief priests and you have the regional governor working against you. You are the victim. You are at the bottom. That’s not true in this story. Not for John. Jesus is in control. Jesus has an authority that he will not call upon, but it’s above those around him. Jesus is innocent of what they’re telling. And so there’s a lot happening in in the way that John writes this.

00:13:54:03 – 00:14:16:13
Michael Gewecke
Yeah. And there’s another detail here I think need to point out in verse 37, this, this talk of truth to your point is really helpful and illustrative. It’s important that we see the detail when Jesus says it’s for this purpose that I was born for this, I came into the world to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.

00:14:16:13 – 00:14:45:03
Michael Gewecke
I, I think that we get caught up as Christians sometimes, Clint, thinking that truth is propositional. It’s a it’s a bunch of words and statements and the correct order and the the correct weight. I think that we, we like to think of truth as ideas that need to be rightly ordered and enacted. But in this story, I just want to make sure that we see this, that we belong to the truth, right?

00:14:45:03 – 00:15:17:16
Michael Gewecke
That that we ultimately are people for whom the truth claims us. And the the nature of the person who belongs to the truth is that we listen to the voice of Jesus, that that’s very different than sort of this modern conception that we have, that I know the truth. I speak the truth. How in Jesus’s portrayal of truth we belong to the truth, which is God, that God owns and holds us, that that’s the gift, that now the task is to listen.

00:15:17:20 – 00:15:43:12
Michael Gewecke
The task is then to hear and then to speak and testify to the truth that we also have seen. That is a it’s a nuanced view, but I really think that truth is relational in this story. While it is framed as what is truth, pilot, you’re so close because the one who belongs to the truth. And if you would listen to his voice, you might also belong to.

00:15:43:12 – 00:15:57:05
Michael Gewecke
That’s right. I mean, that’s the amazing tension of this text that instead of can we cram the right words and propositional ideas into your head, it’s know, are you in relationship with the one who has claimed you? That’s what truth.

00:15:57:05 – 00:16:20:22
Clint Loveall
Is. I think in a really skillful way. Michael. John is bringing us as we near the end of the gospel, bringing us back around to where we started. What what did we just a couple of verses here from the very first chapter, verse ten, he was in the world. The world came to be through him, yet the world did not know him.

00:16:20:27 – 00:16:50:31
Clint Loveall
Even his own people did not accept him. And then if we read verse 14, the word became flesh lived among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the father’s only son, full of grace and truth. So I think John is is ringing bells that were foundational in the very beginning of this gospel. And now we see them playing out in the the person of Jesus and the work of Jesus.

00:16:50:36 – 00:17:03:31
Clint Loveall
And we we see this, I think, in a really in a really powerful way, this connection between where John started and where Jesus ends up.

00:17:03:36 – 00:17:27:06
Michael Gewecke
I don’t know how you could go through a study with John. You can end this study easily by saying, whoa, that’s a lot. That’s a lot detail that that, you know, that’s hard to follow. Or sometimes it was hard to read. Like all that’s fair. I don’t know how you finish this book without admitting it’s masterfully written from beginning to end, that it it coheres through the whole.

00:17:27:10 – 00:18:03:16
Michael Gewecke
And I think that it’s amazing how Jesus doesn’t change when Jesus is standing in front of the religious powers, and when Jesus is standing in front of the military political powers, Jesus is the same who he represents remains constant. And there’s a kind of groundedness in John’s portrayal whether Jesus is turning water into wine, or whether Jesus was revealing God’s plan to a Samaritan woman, or or whether Jesus stands in front of the man who has the power and will ultimately use the power to take his life from him.

00:18:03:21 – 00:18:15:06
Michael Gewecke
Jesus is not different. He is who he is, and he testifies to what he’s been called to do because he’s the Son of God. And John’s telling Coheres, yeah.

00:18:15:10 – 00:18:32:48
Clint Loveall
There is a sense in which John is very, very cohesive. We he he doesn’t take a lot of detail. He comes back to home base very often, and it’s easy to see what’s important to John for us to know about Jesus. I think that’s I think that’s totally fair.

00:18:32:52 – 00:18:54:07
Michael Gewecke
We we have more Pilate to come. So certainly I hope you’ll continue along with us. In the study and, mindful, yes, that tomorrow we are out, do some to some scheduling here at the church. So, certainly hope you you’ll join us for the live study on Thursday. And of course, give this video a like if it’s been helpful, it helps others find it in their own study actually years to come.

00:18:54:07 – 00:18:57:28
Michael Gewecke
So really appreciate it. We look forward to seeing you on Thursday.

00:18:57:32 – 00:18:58:24
Clint Loveall
Thanks everybody.