John 6:60-71

00:00:00:54 – 00:00:23:30
Clint Loveall
Hey, everybody. Thanks for being back with us. We start off on Monday, continuing through the sixth chapter of John. Been in this chapter for a while. It’s a long chapter. We continue to to move through this conversation, that begun that began with Jesus talking about, bread and then the bread of life. And now we begin.

00:00:23:34 – 00:00:49:37
Clint Loveall
We have begun to transition into other things. So we’re picking up in verse 60 today, and, this is I think there’s a lot of John’s personality in this. So we’ll talk it through. And then, after we read it here, verse 60, when many of his disciples heard this, they said, this teaching is difficult. Who can accept it?

00:00:49:42 – 00:01:11:49
Clint Loveall
But Jesus, being aware that his disciples were complaining about it, said to them, does it offend you? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is useless, but the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But among you there are some who do not believe.

00:01:11:54 – 00:01:46:01
Clint Loveall
For Jesus knew from the first who were the ones that did not believe, and who was the one that would betray him. And he said, for this reason I’ve told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted by the father. You know, let’s stop there. So, this teaching Jesus been talking about taking his flesh and his blood and the father sending him, he’s had this conversation ostensibly with the Jewish leaders.

00:01:46:06 – 00:02:10:39
Clint Loveall
But now we learned that the disciples have listened in on it and I think, Michael, when we get to the rest of this passage, I think we’ll see. John is using the word disciples here, broadly. So rather than just the 12, this is a reference, I think, to a broader group, a bigger group that is following Jesus.

00:02:10:39 – 00:02:32:25
Clint Loveall
And Jesus says, some of them didn’t believe or John tells us that Jesus knew that some of them didn’t believe. And so Jesus says to them, would it help if you saw the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? In other words, you’ve seen enough to believe we’ve seen this theme in John already. It’s the spirit that gives life.

00:02:32:25 – 00:03:02:08
Clint Loveall
The flesh won’t get you there. You have to know spirit. And and again, John is sort of as we move to the end of this chapter, tying up some things that we’ve been looking at for a while. For this reason, I’ve told you no one can come to me unless it is granted by the father. Again, here, the idea of Michael of Faith being not only a decision, but in some sense also a gift.

00:03:02:13 – 00:03:30:50
Michael Gewecke
It is important, I think, that we connect this to the conversation from last week where we ended and the previous passage, because it’s essential that we recognize that these disciples, that I think you’re exactly right, are indeed broader than the 12 that we often think of as being called the disciples. These are a wide variety of people who have heard Jesus’s teaching, and they’re following him and remember the context of this section that we’re in right now.

00:03:31:03 – 00:03:56:54
Michael Gewecke
Jesus is saying these things while he’s teaching the synagogue and the hard teaching being referenced today is that whole thing about being eaten and the bread that comes down from heaven and the it’s not like what your ancestors ate, they died, but the one who eats this bread is going to be living forever. We talked a little bit about how, you know, that’s a strange thing with the idea of are we talking cannibalism?

00:03:56:54 – 00:04:27:14
Michael Gewecke
What are we talking here? And so definitely go back and listen to that episode if that section is interesting to you. That said, we turn our attention now here, and I think it’s really worth noting that when the disciples, when those believers, when the people who have been following Jesus hear this, they understand some of the difficulty. I think, of of Jesus’s interpretation of that manna in the wilderness, the idea that the people of Israel ate their death, and now Jesus is inviting them to a new kind of life.

00:04:27:27 – 00:04:55:33
Michael Gewecke
And it reminds me very much of encounters we’ve already seen, where the people come with enough faith to hear Jesus out there, not just close to his teaching, and but then all the same, you have a resistance. As Jesus begins teaching and an inability to see the deeper meaning behind the lesson. So here there is enough faith that the disciples are willing to push back and say, oh, this is tough.

00:04:55:33 – 00:05:20:58
Michael Gewecke
Jesus, on the flip side of that there, they don’t have enough faith. They have yet to see the reality and truth of what Jesus is proclaiming, because they don’t understand that he’s talking about a different way of viewing the world. And that’s the amazing juxtaposition that John does show us. You said at the start of the episode here today that I do think that this displays some of John’s personality.

00:05:20:58 – 00:05:45:25
Michael Gewecke
I think John is comfortable with a kind of theological, I’m even going to say spiritual, nuanced understanding of the world of who Jesus is and how Jesus has transformed the way that we view the world. And the characters in John consist instantly and to regularly misunderstand or misappropriate or follow different paths instead of the path that leads them to the revelation of Christ.

00:05:45:25 – 00:05:49:46
Michael Gewecke
And I think that this story is illustrating that in spades.

00:05:49:51 – 00:06:22:39
Clint Loveall
Agreed. And I also think we see another trait that John has, and that is that Jesus always has this hyper awareness. Jesus is always able to see behind the. In John, there’s no moment where Jesus is confused. There’s no moment where Jesus has doubts. Jesus never questions people. He knows these things. And so for Jesus knew from the first who were the ones that did not believe, believe, and who was the one that would betray him.

00:06:22:44 – 00:06:51:04
Clint Loveall
And and so again, we’re sort of telling this story in John from a looking backward perspective. And we’ll see that, I think we’ll see some real evidence of that in a moment. But let me continue. Pick up these last few verses. And because I do think there are some interesting things about them. So jumping back in at verse 66, because of this, many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him.

00:06:51:09 – 00:07:24:18
Clint Loveall
So Jesus asked the 12, do you wish to go away? Simon Peter answered, Lord, to whom could we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God. Jesus answered them, did I not choose you? The 12 yet one of you is a devil. He was speaking of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, for he, though one of the 12, was going to betray him.

00:07:24:23 – 00:07:49:23
Clint Loveall
So here we have this clear evidence that in John there is a larger group of people following Jesus. And John, I think, uniquely refers to that larger group as disciples. Typically in the gospel, when you see the word disciples, you mean the 12. But John has drawn this distinction here between disciples in general and the 12 in particular.

00:07:49:28 – 00:08:15:07
Clint Loveall
And I’m not aware, Michael, of another place in one of the other gospels where we’re told there are many places where people turn away from Jesus. But I don’t remember an inference in any other place in the Gospels where people were following Jesus and then stopped following, I think. I think that this is an exception to what is the rule in the gospel.

00:08:15:18 – 00:08:44:15
Clint Loveall
There were disciples who turned back and no longer went about with him. And in that there’s a tremendous challenge for the reader, for the believer, to stick with Jesus, right, to stay with Jesus, to stay the course. And he asked these other disciples, the 12, do you want to also go away? And Simon has this relatively famous answer, Lord, to whom would we go?

00:08:44:20 – 00:09:09:58
Clint Loveall
You have the words of eternal life, which is exactly the answer you would give in the Gospel of John. You have the words in Jesus has just said it. You can’t come to me. You have to believe you have the words. Remember how important the word word is in this gospel. You have that Jesus and it leads to eternal life.

00:09:10:02 – 00:09:35:57
Clint Loveall
We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God. That’s the peak of the pyramid that John has been building. In these first six chapters. Peter gives it voice. You have the words of eternal life, and we believe it. And because we believe, we know that you are the Holy One of God. This is a beautiful summary of, I think, where we’ve been in these first six chapters.

00:09:36:01 – 00:10:09:27
Michael Gewecke
It is a peak. It is a moment in which Jesus is giving the 12 an opportunity to take a choice based upon not just what Jesus has done, but who Jesus has claimed to be. And we now see in sharp focus that John is not trying to beat around the bush. John is in fact really sparing no punches as to what the source and what the reality of the gospel is.

00:10:09:27 – 00:10:29:33
Michael Gewecke
And I think, you know, there’s a scandal of the gospel in all of the gospels, and I think they tell it in their own way and in their own voice. But Clint, and correct me if you disagree with this, but it seems to me that John, as a gospel writer, is particularly forthright about the offense of the gospel.

00:10:29:33 – 00:10:54:27
Michael Gewecke
He’s particular clear about the way that this is cutting against the grain of conventional wisdom, of what we think is and should be true, so much so that not only we do, we see this moment. I think we can all imagine that moment where in a crowd, a certain number just duel one A.D. and they start walking the other way.

00:10:54:37 – 00:11:17:29
Michael Gewecke
They hit the dusty trail to go back to whatever they had left before a job or a family, or a task, and they resettle back into the life that they have before. And here Jesus gives the 12 the same opportunity in light of this hard teaching and light of this thing that is difficult to understand, what then will be your choice?

00:11:17:43 – 00:11:51:05
Michael Gewecke
That’s no doubt a question for that original 12 but John is the kind of writer who also certainly meant for us to hear the same question. And Jesus’s voice ultimately, is this teaching too much? Is it too difficult? And no matter how we answer, John is up front and forthright about the situation that Jesus puts people in. He he does not allow people to to sort of bend around the edges and to try to hear it their own way.

00:11:51:05 – 00:12:18:49
Michael Gewecke
It Jesus in the Gospel of John, says clearly the truth of who he is, and the implications of that drives action. And today I think it’s right to say this is the mountaintop of that journey so far. Because for the first time, we see those for whom this was one step too far. This was one teaching too much, and it drives their action away from the revelation of God rather than towards it.

00:12:18:54 – 00:12:47:46
Clint Loveall
I think I said last week, in some ways, John is the most comfortable with people not believing, and I don’t mean that he’s I don’t mean comfortable in the sense that he’s okay with it. I think John just simply understands that the choice of Jesus is between believing and not believing, and he also realistically assumes that that means some aren’t going to believe Jesus does these things.

00:12:47:51 – 00:13:12:59
Clint Loveall
Jesus says these things. Jesus proves himself in John’s eyes in in multiple ways over and over again. And yet there are some who just can’t go with it. It is too hard for them. And the disciples proved to be the opposite of that. We’ve come to know that you’re the Holy One of God. We believe in you.

00:13:13:08 – 00:13:40:48
Clint Loveall
We believe you, and so Jesus says, I, I chose you, did I not choose you? The 12 and then because we’ve said, you know, John’s keeping no secrets here. It’s already in the sixth chapter. We know Simon Iscariot, Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. We all know Judas. And John already tells us what Judas is going to do.

00:13:40:53 – 00:14:14:58
Clint Loveall
But this fundamental tension in John between belief and non-belief, I. I think if you were going to look for one major structural theme in the book, believing versus non-believing is not a bad place to land. I, I think in many ways that’s the undercurrent that kind of carries this story along. And so in each story that we’ve seen and stories we’ll continue to see often, the snapshot could be taken of is this a belief story or an unbelief story?

00:14:14:58 – 00:14:17:27
Clint Loveall
And many times they’re intertwined.

00:14:17:32 – 00:14:42:11
Michael Gewecke
I think there’s a dark reality coursing underneath of this story because of the inclusion that you just offer. Yes, of course, John wants us to know Jesus knows everything. Jesus knows about Judas, right? But here’s the dark reality. There’s a whole group of people who, just previous to this story, may have called themselves disciples. They turned and walked away.

00:14:42:16 – 00:15:14:18
Michael Gewecke
The the disciples, of course, we would celebrate as Christians those within the faith. We celebrate their choice. No, Jesus, you have the words of life that they are responding with faith. The dark reality of including Judas at this point, the story is the fact that John is tipping off to us. There’s some who walk away, and then there are others who follow and will ultimately then take action towards the actual, killing of the Messiah.

00:15:14:18 – 00:15:40:26
Michael Gewecke
That there are. There is one named and we know even looking ahead, that that one not only is going to refuse belief, but it’s going to take that, by, by force, by action. He is going to actively subvert God’s revelation in the world. And of course, in doing so, because of God’s providence and Jesus’s knowledge that all of that will be undone towards God’s end.

00:15:40:26 – 00:16:01:39
Michael Gewecke
We know the end of that story. But Clint, there is a kind of darkness in. You have some who go the other way. You have another who plays along until a moment where he makes a choice that can’t be unmade. And I do think that reminds me of that text that we have about the unpardonable sin, another teaching of Jesus, you know, that that often disturbs people.

00:16:01:44 – 00:16:25:14
Michael Gewecke
This is the kind of, I think, flesh and blood of that kind of language of of someone who has lived within the community, a believer, to give it that kind of term, who then at some point uses that against the very one that he has professed to believe. And I think that there is a there’s kind of a dark heart coursing under the Neath of this text.

00:16:25:19 – 00:16:51:42
Clint Loveall
There’s certainly a reality to it that faith is hard. And I think sometimes modern Christians, American Christians who have a relatively easy life of faith, we we’re not persecuted. We get to come to church, we get to log on and watch Bible studies. We get to do Bible studies, right? That we can sort of take for granted that there’s a simplicity and maybe even a comfort in the faith.

00:16:51:46 – 00:17:28:01
Clint Loveall
But look at the words here. I, I don’t know, we don’t have an exact knowledge of what the word many means in Greek, but the implication is probably it’s more than 12. So the the number of people who left may have in fact been larger than the number of those who stayed. And and that’s a sobering reality for John, that John again, in in modern Christianity, we have this idea cast a wide net, make Christianity as palatable as possible for everyone.

00:17:28:06 – 00:17:59:40
Clint Loveall
Try to get them in and help them grow. All of that’s well and good, but I’m not sure John paints the same picture. John paints a picture of a faith life that is difficult to understand and difficult to live out, that asks hard things and is demanding. And a good number of people, having understood at least some of it, decide that it wasn’t for them.

00:17:59:40 – 00:18:25:15
Clint Loveall
You know, we do have the story of in the other gospels of the rich young ruler. This is that sort of writ large. And I think, again, I think that gives us such a clear. No understanding, maybe too strong word. It gives us a clear insight into how John thinks about the gospel and what it means to follow Jesus.

00:18:25:15 – 00:18:29:13
Clint Loveall
And he’s he. He evidently does not think it’s easy.

00:18:29:14 – 00:18:57:04
Michael Gewecke
I there’s a form of comfort in that, though, and it’s a hard comfort. Okay, but it’s important. It’s worth remembering that when Jesus walked the earth, the living revelation of God, as John says, the capital W, Word of God is speaking and teaching and preaching. While he does that, the people who are seeing the light of his revelation, who are hearing the truth of his words.

00:18:57:05 – 00:19:22:06
Michael Gewecke
This is not some human preachers standing on a Sunday, fumbling with words, trying to say something on behalf of the the interpretation of Scripture and in the tradition of the church. This is God Himself speaking. And in the midst of that revelation, it is not only missed, but it actively produces enemies. And that’s the transition that we’re going to turn to.

00:19:22:06 – 00:19:47:08
Michael Gewecke
The awareness that Jesus is not only teaching hard things, and not only are some being turned away, but some are being set against him and towards his life to take his life. And Clint, there’s a reality, I think, in John that is comforting for those who may live in a world that seems increasingly antagonistic to faith writ large.

00:19:47:13 – 00:20:09:55
Michael Gewecke
And I do think that we can receive the hope and comfort that even in the very first days of the faith, there was resistance to the revelation of Christ. This is hard. It was hard from day one. And so we continue to pray earnestly and we pray for patience. We pray for wisdom and discernment, all of these things, but we don’t pray them newly.

00:20:10:08 – 00:20:25:45
Michael Gewecke
We pray them in unison with the church. That’s always been praying them. I think there’s something meaningful in that. There’s there’s a reassurance that we’re not in a new day. We’re continuing the days that have been since literally the moment that Jesus walked on the face of the earth.

00:20:25:49 – 00:20:41:26
Clint Loveall
Agreed. And I think that’s a good word to end with. We want to thank you for joining us today. Thanks for watching. If you appreciate the video, if you learned something or have been challenged by it, it does help us. If you like it or subscribe to it, it helps others find it who might also be interested.

00:20:41:31 – 00:20:45:43
Clint Loveall
But we’re grateful for your time today and look forward to joining you tomorrow as we continue.