Personal Faith | Books Worth Reading

Hello, friends.
Welcome back to the Pastor Talk podcast,
now the second episode in a series that
we are doing where we are simply going together.
Pastor Clint and I are talking about some books
that we think you might be interested in reading.
We combed our bookshelves,
looked at some things
that we thought, you know, that’s accessible, that was interesting, it was meaningful to us,
and certainly by no way any kind of assignment.
But we just thought, hey,
let’s throw out some
books that we thought might be worth reading,
and if one of them strikes you as interesting,
they may be worth picking up.
Today we’re shifting gears a little bit,
we’re turning our attention to a particular,
I wouldn’t say genre,
but maybe a general subject matter.
The books that we’re
talking about today are a little bit more introspective.
There’s a term that we’ve used
here at First Prez and elsewhere where we’ve talked about things like the autobiography of grace,
sort of looking back over our own life and looking internally to see the ways in which
God has been faithful,
present to us in our own journey.
The books that we’ll discuss today
have that in them.
I wouldn’t say that’s all that they are,
but they do encourage us to be
reflective about where we’ve been and how God has been with us along that way,
and Pastor Clint’s going to get us kicked off today.
Yeah, I think that’s well said,
Michael.
I would put this book
in that category of a person with really a deep intellect and a deep spiritual life.
Craig Barnes is the author, pastor,
president of a seminary, a scholar,
and a man I think who is
very able to reflect on his experiences and then put them into words that are moving and helpful
to others.
And the book that I chose,
he has several books I think that are worth reading,
but the one that I’ve chose is called Searching for Home.
It’s really interesting.
I think it brings together kind of three major threads.
His personal story,
both as his life story and his
pastoral story when he worked as a pastor,
those are woven together.
He also then takes Dante’s
inferno as part of a backdrop,
and then the story of the biblical story of the prodigal son.
And he sort of almost kind of weaves these together,
braids these three themes together to look at
this idea of what it is to be home and what it is to be lost.
By definition, being lost first,
what it is to be restless,
what it is to feel unsettled.
He kind of, if I were to outline some
of the themes, I would say lostness,
wandering,
restlessness,
and then that moment of turning
toward home, of looking for something better,
of seeking a place,
of being welcomed,
of finding rest in the metaphor that he ultimately would say being at home.
And to get there,
he uses these two
terms.
I don’t know.
He maybe uses them a little bit specifically,
but he uses the term of nomad.
A nomad is essentially a person who moves around running from home,
who doesn’t want to be settled,
who is afraid of staying in one place,
and on the other end,
the idea of pilgrim,
the person who moves around looking for a home and ultimately finds one.
And in a way that I think very few people can do,
I do find Craig Barnes amazing in his ability of using language.
And I think in a
way that really only he could do,
or maybe a few others,
to take his story,
Dante’s Inferno, the prodigal son,
and mash them together in a way that is accessible,
that is deep.
If you have experienced restlessness,
if you have experienced tragedy and the idea of being lost,
this might be a book that could,
at times, I wouldn’t be surprised,
bring tears to your eyes,
and certainly make you feel like it resonates with your own searching kind of experience.
But then ultimately lands in beautiful expressions of grace,
of being welcomed home by the father,
of what it means to care for one another,
and what it means to put our restlessness aside
in the sense of being home.
It’s a powerful image,
Michael, it’s a powerful metaphor,
and I think he uses it exceptionally well.
This is not a book that you will find difficult to
read from a scholarly standpoint,
but it will,
I think, if you let it lead you to some difficult
questions and probably ask you to relive some difficult moments, though ultimately,
I believe it won’t leave you there.
It will help you move through those valleys to something
better.
And I found this book personally helpful,
professionally helpful.
If I had a short list of
books I’m glad that I read and that I would want to keep with me,
this would be on it.
And so I have a lot of praise for it because I found it extremely beneficial in my own experience.
So today’s selection of books is unique in that it is one of the few,
I think, that both of us
have read the books.
Yeah, I think so.
And, you know, I found your selection really interesting
in Searching for Home because I too had a very profound experience with it.
The thing that struck
me, and I’d be interested for you to talk more about,
is if you just heard the cover,
you might be easily mistaken to think that it’s all about that sense of lost home as in your place of origin,
like a geographic place.
And he certainly starts with the reality that in especially a place like America,
it is very new historically in the past 100 years,
200 years, certainly, where people
will often move in different places throughout their life.
They lose that sense of landedness
or that kind of geographic center.
But that’s not all he means.
And I think it’s just worth pointing
that out.
When he talks about searching for home,
he’s talking about something much deeper about
that searching for an eternal home,
an eternal fittedness, a kind of constancy that we aren’t
going to find in any place.
You may have lived in the same place your entire life.
You might be geographically home, but still yearning Searching Restless for something that lives beyond it.
And I think he digs deeply into the Christian witness.
So do you agree with that, Clint?
I mean,
his
understanding of this is far bigger than just where we grew up, right?
Yeah, I would say 100%, Michael.
As he introduces the chapter in which he kind of
begins to mine Dante’s Inferno and you begin to see that that’s going to have an impact on the book,
he introduces that and he says,
“We need to turn to poetry because home is found more easily
in a poem than on a map.” And I think that’s the sense of what he means.
Where is it that we feel
like we belong?
Now, for some of us,
there is a geography located with that.
For some of us,
we drive to our hometown or we drive to the house that we’ve lived in.
We think of that place as
home and it embodies much of that
feeling and that sense of belonging in that location.
For others,
particularly those for whom homes,
physical homes have been a painful experience
or have been the site of a painful experience,
I think home becomes a much trickier concept.
Where is it that we feel safe?
Where is it that we feel at rest?
He’s got a wonderful
line in here where he says,
“I have spent an unforgivable amount of time in churches
and I’m telling you,
if that’s the home we think we’re looking for,
we are settling for too little.”
And, you know, so he’s very, he’s acquainted with the church,
he’s acquainted with human restfulness,
he has restlessness,
he has his own,
he has some pain in his own story that I think he shares,
but in a way that isn’t self-serving.
It’s not about,
“Oh, look at me,
poor.” He simply lays it
out there as a way of understanding his own framework and his own experience because I think
he believes and I think he says that searching for home is something that every person
does in some way, shape or form.
We all look for the place that we fit and his hope is that
ultimately we find that within the faith,
we find that within the Gospel and that’s where he would lean heavily on,
you know, that story, the parable of the
prodigal son and the idea of the father
who welcomes him open-armed even after he’s made his mistakes and visited the far country,
which is another beautiful image he uses in here.
He takes that phrase,
“the far country,” and he uses it as a metaphor of all the places we look for,
all the wrong places we look for,
the right thing.
So the far country is whatever seduces us to believe that we can only find home
through our own efforts and through our own success and through our own pleasure.
And he
has a way,
I often am jealous when I read him,
Michael, of his way to craft language and to paint word pictures.
He is exceptional, I think, in that regard.
And for me at least,
I have found him and particularly this book
really, really challenging,
I think really encouraging and thought-provoking.
Yeah, in the spirit of this conversation,
which is, you know, not just books that have been meaningful for us,
but books we think that,
you know, may be meaningful for you.
And jump in and correct me if you think this isn’t right,
Clay, but I would highly recommend
searching for home if you find yourself at any crossroads of life.
If you find yourself
maybe at the moment of professional promotion,
you know, maybe you’ve walked your career for quite
a while and you feel like you might be at a crossroads or maybe you’re serious in a relationship
and that might lead to marriage or maybe you’re getting close to kids,
maybe you’re getting close to retirement,
maybe you’re making some substantial health choices or,
you know, we’re going to downsize the house.
You know,
there are these moments of life and life has them spread out.
I mean, it goes the whole length where we find ourselves trying to find something deeply foundational,
something that we can build our life on,
the rock that Jesus speaks about, not sand.
And I think every one of those moments is the perfect juncture to bring barns into our conversation.
I want to make it very clear that this book is not written to pastors specifically.
It would speak to anyone who finds themselves in the midst of seeking a kind of thread that they
can follow, a promise,
even God’s sort of hand leading through the different seasons of life.
I mean, I think that this book is broad and that’s what makes it so amazing is that it can
speak in all these circumstances and yet it speaks with clarity.
And I’m sorry, I’m not going to be able to flush that out.
And if it sounds compelling,
I would say read it and you hopefully
will discover that yourself.
But what he’s done is to make something accessible that’s also very
sharp and clear in the words he uses.
It may help and it may not,
but I think would become apparent
if you get a chance to read this.
Craig Barnes is an outstanding preacher and there is much of
this book that reads,
in my opinion, Michael,
as listening to a very, very good sermon,
the
little detours that you take where you explore another theme and it all somehow builds together.
I just think,
I don’t think you would find this book disappointing.
If you have a chance,
if you want to read something that is challenging,
that is inspirational, that will ask hard
questions of you, but that will ultimately be with you while you seek to answer them and I think even
be helpful as you seek to answer them,
I would recommend this book.
It’s not a theology book,
it’s not a Bible book,
though those are in there.
He may reference some authors that you haven’t
heard of, but he gives the quotes.
I think this is a pretty worthy list on the reading list for most Christian people.
I really think,
I can’t imagine who wouldn’t find it helpful to be honest
with you.
So just in case you’re now on board and you say that’s a book I want to read,
Searching for Home by Craig Barnes.
Yeah,
Spirituality for Restless Souls, Craig Barnes.
It’s been out a while.
I have to admit, Michael, I apologize.
I didn’t look to see if it’s still
in print, but I can’t imagine that it’s not.
I got an ebook of it a couple years ago.
That’s how I got it.
Yeah, it looks like 2002,
so it’s definitely out there.
If you’re interested, check it out.
If you do check it out,
I’d love to hear your thoughts.
By all means, let’s talk about it.
And if you have other questions,
come on in.
We’ll let you borrow a book.
We’ll go from there.
I believe this is in the church library too.
I don’t hold, don’t,
I think that’s true.
Well,
well maybe we’ll- It should be if it isn’t.
We’ll put that in the comments.
I should check that ahead of time also.
That moves us to our second book,
and we’re going to be talking about The Pastor,
a memoir.
This is written by Eugene Peterson.
You may know Eugene Peterson,
even if you don’t recognize that name.
He is actually, or was, he’s recently passed away.
Eugene Peterson was a Presbyterian pastor,
but he is notable for being the author,
the scholar of the Bible translation,
which is a paraphrase.
It’s not a translation in a technical sense,
but it’s called the message.
And in that,
he tried to lay out the Bible in a way that was incredibly readable,
that was accessible, relatable,
and it’s a great partner along with another Bible.
It’s a great reading partner to help the scriptures be relevant.
But Eugene Pearson not only wrote the message,
which is once again that Bible,
he wrote extensively to pastors.
In fact, he wrote what is on my shelf,
some of my most prized,
sort of wise words from an older pastor.
But he also wrote this,
and it is his memoir.
And so if you are a person who likes memoirs,
maybe that’s it.
Maybe that’s all you needed to hear,
and you’re all in on this.
If you’re a person who doesn’t have an opinion,
or maybe you haven’t loved memoirs,
I think I would still
recommend this book.
And the reason for that is it traces somewhat similar themes to the Craig Barnes book.
It is introspective,
but it’s also a very grounded,
very practical, and relatable theological explanation,
or exploration rather,
of Eugene Peterson’s life and faith.
And we come to discover that his life has in it a lot of those important turns in a life.
But Clint, he also chooses to trace a lot of the common parts of his life.
This is a very relatable book.
You don’t need to be a pastor.
Don’t let the title fool you.
It’s about him,
the pastor, but it’s really written for anyone because of the very simple,
relatable life experience he shares.
And in that life experience,
I feel like he offered to me at least a invitation to see my life,
all of my life,
as lived under the grace of Jesus Christ.
It’s deeply theological, but not in a way that you might initially think.
It’s relatable.
It’s connected to our daily lives.
And as he does that,
he points out the ways that God’s included in our common lives.
Darrell Bock Yeah, Michael, first of all, I think this is a good addition to this list.
I was glad to see that you included it in your list.
I don’t disagree that this is theological,
but I think for most people it will read more along the lines of what I would call spiritually than
theological.
It’s not doctrinal.
It’s not laying out ideas and unpacking who said what about them.
This is a man living out his faith in the context of Christian leadership.
It’s interesting you and
I’ve been teaching a Bible study on 2 Timothy where Paul is talking to a younger pastor named
Timothy about his own journey and leadership.
That’s the sort of tenor and tone I hear in this book.
Having said that, I agree completely that this isn’t a book by a pastor written for pastors.
If you have any curiosity about some of the behind the scenes working in leading a congregation,
this is a really good window on that journey, on that lifestyle.
This isn’t a how-to book,
but it is a glimpse of a very faithful,
very thoughtful, very intelligent spiritual man
as we get to look over his shoulder as he does his work in pastoring.
I think that gives this
book a unique character among those kind of books.
Certainly Eugene Peterson being Eugene
Peterson helps a lot in that regard.
But if you have any interest in how spiritual community
happens and the place of leadership in that,
boy, this is a really good
examination of that.
I think it shows you that in a very accessible way.
Some of the themes interwoven in this book are deeply connected to Eugene Peterson’s,
for lack of better words,
non-traditional faith story.
He ends up pastoring in what we call a mainline church,
a Presbyterian church that would be shared with Methodists or Lutherans.
He finds himself in that traditional model and he serves in that capacity through the 60s, the 70s,
the 80s.
What is interesting is he grows up in a Montana western town to a very charismatic Pentecostal family.
He grows up in a very narrative and imaginative and rich kind of world.
He carries that with him to his study, his academic
study, and then into the church.
He brings with him
his ministry a deep commitment to words,
to the ways that scripture teaches us how to think and
talk and speak, and then
in reverse the ways in which our present words continue to carry forward
that rich biblical tradition.
The thing I think that would make this book accessible for anyone
is it will show you how these seemingly
disparate threads,
how you make it from
the mountains, the rocky mountains, and then you serve your entire career in the suburban Delaware congregation.
How God works in the midst of that whole messy circle is exactly the thing
I think, Clint, that Eugene Pearson invites the reader to do alongside.
That’s the part of this
book I wanted to get to is I don’t know how you could read it, honestly,
as a Christian at least.
I don’t know how you could read this book and not read your own life,
not through his lens,
but alongside him and be asking yourself the question,
how is it that my life can be a witness
and testimony to God’s work?
I think it’s an invaluable task to see in our own history,
our own context and struggles and choices and our biography to see the way that God’s biography has
been written into it.
I think as Peterson does that for himself,
it’s kind of an open invitation
for us to do it ourselves.
It’s an inspiration to do that same kind of work.
I think that anyone
would find this an invitation to do that work yourself.
Peterson has a lot of strengths.
He’s a wonderful storyteller.
He’s wonderfully reflective.
He is a kind of spiritualist,
but he’s not a mystic.
You’re not going to wonder what he’s talking about.
Having said that,
he clearly gives the vibes of a person
who was deeply reflective,
who has been made and remade by prayer and study.
He’s conversant with
historic theology and with the traditions of the church.
But in a way,
I think that is practical
in a man you can imagine maybe having as your own pastor or having a real conversation with.
And Michael, I don’t know if you agree with this and certainly push back if you don’t.
If you’re a person who loves start to finish books,
you like to read books,
you like to get a book
and just plow through it and be done with it,
I don’t think this is for you.
This is the equivalent
of really fine dining,
a 20-course meal with little servings.
I think this is the kind of book you
read a story or a chapter and it stays with you for a little while.
I think this is the kind of
book that is best read slowly,
carefully, thoughtfully, kind of open with an open sense
of what’s it going to say to me today.
I’ll be honest, this is the kind of book I was a little
sad when it was over.
I just felt like I had had a wonderful,
like I’d been sitting at his feet
and he had been teaching me and telling me things that I needed to know.
And at the end,
it was like, “Gosh, I wish there was more to it.” And so,
there aren’t many books that do that to
me if I’m going to be 100% honest and I remember this being one of those.
I’m trying to think,
maybe Clint, your library’s more expansive than mine.
This is a unique book
in my experience.
I’m not suggesting there’s not other books out there that don’t do this kind of work,
but this book was unique for me.
I’ve not read anything before or since that is quite
as biographical and yet deeply human.
I’m not suggesting,
don’t hear me wrong,
I’m going to make an interesting statement here.
I’m not suggesting that Eugene Peterson is a saint
of the church, Presbyterians don’t have saints.
I’m not suggesting that.
But if you are interested
in a memoir, a thoughtful self-reflection of someone who is deeply engaged the faith,
someone who has given their life to thinking what it means to be Christian in an everyday experience
and in a way that you can actually talk to,
someone who’s not so spiritually minded that
they’re no earthly good.
I mean, he lives firmly on the ground, both feet.
I think if that is
something that you would be able to relate to,
man, pick up this book.
And quite frankly,
it may be the kind of book that you find yourself devouring,
maybe you find yourself blowing through
it and then you come back and you read it like that.
I mean,
I don’t know how you read and what
your interest is, but I think this book has depth.
So don’t come to it thinking,
here’s a guy’s history.
Not that that’s not important.
He has a kind of pastor’s teaching edge as he reflects on this story.
And if you’re willing to let yourself into the story with Eugene Peterson,
I promise you, you will not just learn something intellectually.
He will help you connect those
threads in your own life in a really powerful way.
Some of this is the nature of how Eugene
Peterson thinks and writes,
Michael.
But this is one of those books that I think would be a little hard to pigeonhole.
It’s not a devotional,
but you could read it devotionally.
It’s not a book
about pastoring, but if a pastor reads it,
you’re going to see tons of things.
It’s not a book about
the church, but if you’re a church person,
you’re gonna resonate with lots of what he says, both
to the good and bad.
And I’ll be honest,
if I could take a little side trip there,
that’s one of the things I appreciate about Eugene Peterson.
He knows the church,
and he loves the church in spite of knowing it.
He gets all of the brokenness
of the church.
He’s very honest about our struggles to
be the people of Jesus Christ,
and yet
his faith in God doing something within the church and the flawed people of it
just radiate on almost every page.
This is not a whitewashing of the frailties and flaws of our communities.
This is a trust in God’s power to deliver them if they are prayerful,
and if they show up,
and if they do the work of Jesus Christ,
which it turns out is sometimes
hard work
that has to take a long time.
And his love of the people of God,
in spite of actually knowing them, I think comes through.
And so I agree with you.
This book is not like,
it’s not a storybook.
There’s a little bit of everything in here,
and I would say that
that’s what makes it accessible.
There are books about pastors that I wouldn’t recommend to lay people.
I mean, they could read them,
but they’re really written for…
I think this is just written
for people through the story of a guy who happened to be a pastor,
and I think you could find in it
almost whatever you needed to hear from it.
And I think that’s the mark of an exceptional book.
So you have both books,
so why don’t you hold them up here for us since you have them.
So first book is on your left.
I’m gonna get this wrong.
So Searching for Home,
Craig Barnes, the other book,
The Pastor by Eugene Peterson.
These are our two recommendations,
books, both of them, you would say, Clint,
asking us to reflect on our faith,
how the timeless scriptures connect to our time today,
and how we as people of God can live connected
to our deeper faith, and that can animate our lives and our understandings of who we are in faith.
Yeah, I think interesting that we have both read both of these books,
Michael, and I think both
enjoyed them, both felt challenged and uplifted by them.
I suspect others would as well, so
if they sound of interest to you,
talk to us about them,
pick them up, read them if you do.
Let’s have a conversation about them,
but if you do,
we hope you find them helpful because we have.
Yeah, once again, you’ll find links to both of these books in the description just to help you
get a starting place where to look for them.
And like Clint said,
we love…
Go to the comments,
let us know if you’ve read one of these.
If there’s a book that is like this that you would
recommend that others might want to read,
put that in the comments too.
Help somebody else find a book that you think might help them in their own journey.
It’s a joy to have you with us today.
Next week, we’ll be back with another selection of books, another theme,
and we hope you’ll be blessed until then.
Thanks, everybody.