Reflections on 2020: Emma Loveall & Daniel Stover

Hi friends,
thank you for joining us again as we continue through this series, Reflections on 2020,
where we speak to people mostly from within the
congregation about their experiences of the past year,
what it meant to them,
what has changed for them,
and what they’ve learned as they reflect on those moments
that they have been through as a part of what we’ve all gone through.
And today we kind of narrow the focus to the idea of students.
We thought it’d be interesting
to talk to some people who were in high school or in graduate school at the
time this happened, and listen to them as to how things change for them and
and what it means,
in some cases what they lost,
in some cases how some things
that we take for granted were not available to them as students in that
part of their life.
And I hope it’d be an interesting conversation for you.
For most of these conversations we will focus on one individual,
but what is different about today’s conversation is that it will actually highlight two people.
We have with us Emma Lovell,
who of course many here in the congregation know,
everyone at first press,
and then we also have Daniel Stover,
and they really represent two very different kind of experiences of this season.
Emma of course was a high school senior when the pandemic hit,
and so she dealt with
all of those things that happened as she closed out one season and then began a new one.
And then Daniel Stover is right now in the midst of medical school,
and in fact he’s been doing residency,
and so he’s had a very different vantage,
of course a different kind of education,
but also a different place in the middle of
medical training in what has been a medical crisis.
And so from both of these
students we see diverse perspectives of what has happened,
and I think the
benefit of having two voices in that conversation is that we are very aware
that the difference of one year in high school,
or even the difference of one
year in elementary school to middle school,
or one year from
college senior to graduate school,
makes a substantial difference in your
experience of this pandemic.
And we know that that’s not just even for what grade
you’re in, but what city you’ve been in and how they’ve responded.
And so the diversity of a few voices might help us capture all of the diversity that we
know has been experienced in this time,
and recognizing that young people have
been seeking to work through this in their own ways.
Yeah, and I think fortunately for most of them that’s a stage of your life that you’re pretty
resilient, that you, you know, are fairly flexible and able to make some changes.
But Michael, it occurs to me,
and part of this is I observed this firsthand with
Emma in the house,
but in many ways the things we’ve lost are things that we
miss, but things that will come back,
going to restaurants, going to the theater, whatever that is.
You know, for that class of 2020,
they lost some things that they’re not going to get a redo on.
Their proms, their graduation,
their senior seasons of,
say, track of some of the sports in the spring.
And those were, you know,
unavailable to them or taken from them.
And in the midst of that disappointment,
then also I think Emma makes the comment,
and she said this
to us at home too,
that sense of I had no idea when I left school that it’d be
the last time that I was there.
And I think that’s an interesting perspective.
And then from Daniel’s perspective,
what’s it like to be at the center of
this in the medical community,
trying to learn medicine while all of the world
turns its eye to medicine and viruses and vaccines?
And how do you do patient
care in the midst of this?
How does it affect this incredibly important
learning that you’re trying to do now doing it from a little bit more distance?
So I think these are interesting conversations.
You know, we understand they represent a pretty narrow perspective.
Most of us are long done
with our education, and most of us didn’t go to medical school.
But I think as we
look through their experiences,
we do get a chance to see another vantage point
from which to evaluate the year behind us.
So as we turn our attention to these
conversations, I do want to invite you to listen,
to engage with these two people
and their story, what they’ve learned and what’s challenged them.
But also I would invite you to consider what we might learn from their vantage.
I was struck after we concluded these conversations about how much hope and
determination both of these individuals have,
even though they did see their
lives substantially changed in a moment.
They continue to look forward to what
they can do today to continue to grow as people.
And though that’s a challenge for
every one of us,
I think there’s also inspiration in it that we might continue
to be hopeful people,
driven and engaged and fed by our faith so that we might
continue to grow in Christ’s likeness and in service in the world.
I think in both of these we see an aspect in which faith is a force that continues to compel us forward.
You know, that we recognize the difficulties in our midst,
but we don’t stop there.
We don’t dwell on them.
We continue to look for ways to
improve ourselves and our journeys and others and I think some of that will
come through in both of these conversations.
So friends,
we begin with Emma Lovell.
[Music] [Music] [Music]
[Music] [Music] Well friends, welcome to another in our series of conversations with people who have had differing experiences of this time and today.
We’re the privilege of getting to meet with someone who’s a stranger to no one here at First Press,
Emma Lovell.
It’s a pleasure to catch up with Emma after some time transitioning into college life,
if we could call it that.
We’ll talk more about what that’s looked like,
but Emma, thanks for being here.
It’s awesome to have you.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
So I want to start,
Emma, with this question of,
you know, maybe filling in some of the story.
So tell me a little bit about the spring of last year,
I guess winter of last year,
as we started to learn about this virus and some of those things trickling down through the conversations at school.
Just sort of maybe paint a picture for us of what it was like in the early days of the virus and school and when it really began to impact your life.
Yeah, so we talked a lot about it in government class during like current events stuff and we were aware of it.
But then I remember we were in Florida,
my mom and I and a couple of friends were down just doing like a senior trip.
And we were sitting at dinner when we got the text that school was going to be like canceled for two weeks.
And I remember at first I was super excited because we had a big anatomy test on Monday that none of us wanted to study for.
So at first it was kind of like,
okay, yeah, like a nice two week break.
And then little did we know what really was going to happen with all that.
Right.
So that two week break,
if I remember right,
was connected to like the spring break,
right?
Because that was around Easter time,
wasn’t it?
Yeah, I think that’s right.
And so then the word came out,
school is going to be canceled permanently.
I mean,
do you remember when you got that?
Yeah, that one hit me pretty hard.
It was just a weird feeling knowing that you like walked the halls the last time or you sat in your last class without ever knowing that that was your last class.
Yeah, that those were your last encounters with some of your classmates.
Right.
Right. And so what did the school do in terms of homework and tests and activities?
I mean, what sort of transpired after that here?
Yeah.
So Spirit Lake,
they gave everybody a second semester for their classes just because they couldn’t prove who would have gotten what grades.
And then college classes continued.
So I think I was in three college classes,
two that were online through Iowa Lakes and my anatomy class.
So that one we did like a zoom meeting every morning at nine.
But yeah, the rest of my classes,
my just high school classes didn’t ever finish them.
And did you have any activities that got cut off there or were you not doing anything at the school there?
I wasn’t doing anything through the school,
but I was playing club volleyball in Sioux Falls and that got shut down.
Also, we ended up doing a little bit of practicing in the summer just for like an hour at a time, small groups.
But we never went to any of our tournaments.
Yeah, and wasn’t able to like do group practices.
Yeah, and that was that group club volleyball,
right?
There’s a lot of traveling around the country.
And I assume that being a senior in that program is a pretty big deal.
Is that right?
Yeah, we were really excited.
We had a good team this year.
Our whole goal this year was like to win nationals or like to place high at nationals,
which is down in Florida.
And so everyone was really looking forward to that.
And it didn’t happen.
Right.
Yeah.
So what then transpired during the summer?
Because we all kind of had hopes that things would be different in the summer.
What would your summer look like?
Yeah, for sure.
So I play volleyball at Milwaukee and they asked us to come for summer workouts.
So I left July 5th to go stay in Wisconsin for the rest of the summer and practice and workout every day.
But we weren’t able to like get in a gym or get in the weight room.
So we practice in the upperclassmen’s garage.
And then some days we’d go down and play like beach volleyball by like Michigan.
Or we’d put up grass nets any place that we could find and just kind of figured it out.
So I was there for probably two weeks.
And then we found out that our season was going to be moved to the spring.
And so then I came back home and then end of August I left just to go to like school, like normal school.
Okay, so paint us the picture for that because that sort of move in thing is,
you know, immortalized in movies and pictures.
And so I’d be interested in like what your experience of moving in during COVID times was.
Yeah.
So I mean,
moving anywhere, I feel like is a big change.
But then trying to like navigate like a pandemic through it was kind of crazy where like you had to have masks on.
And like signing up for certain move in times,
like only so many people could be in the building and that kind of thing.
Yeah, I think at that point,
like I had been in Milwaukee for a little bit.
So it wasn’t as I think some of the nerves and stuff were gone.
But yeah, it was definitely sad saying bye to mom and dad and moving to school.
So I know you’ve got lots of friends that went lots of different places.
What’s sort of your sense of how Milwaukee is similar and different to other people’s college experience from talking with friends?
It sounds like Milwaukee is pretty strict,
especially just like city mandates.
You can’t go outside without wearing a mask.
So like walking to your car,
walking your dog, whatever it may be.
Like if you’re outside,
you need to have one or in all public places.
I have a few friends that are athletes,
too.
But like we have to practice in masks.
I get covid tested three times a week and then just team roles and stuff,
too, where like they ask us not to go to gatherings or see a bunch of people we don’t know outside the team.
And so that’s made it a little difficult to like make friends and go to like different events just because we’re asked not to limit our exposure.
Right.
So we know that you’re coming up on the cusp of what is supposed to be your season right late in the winter,
spring here.
So what does it look like right now?
That’s going to look like.
Yeah, I’m really excited.
So we’re going to play Mondays and Tuesdays for eight weeks.
And then after those eight weeks,
the top four teams will go to the conference tournament.
And then the winner of those four teams will get the bid to the NCAA tournament.
So usually our season is like three months and they play like over 30 games.
I think this year we’ll have 16 games if we can not be quarantined over any of those.
What happens to the team if you are quarantined?
Is that a loss or a draw or what does that look like?
That’s a good question.
I don’t know what that looks like.
Yeah.
But as of right now,
we have seven girls on our team who have already had it at some point and who are now like cleared again to play.
So if we get shut down at any time,
those girls can still play because of NCAA rules or however that works.
And so we should be able to put a team together.
It might be kind of goofy,
but we should be able to play even if we are shut down.
Right.
So OK.
So this is a lot of things, right?
Right.
You know, it’s interesting that not only are you navigating this big transition,
like you said, but you’re doing it in these really sort of remarkable times.
And I’m curious,
Emma, as you sort of reflect back on what’s happened,
do you have a sense of a summary yet?
Have you begun to think about what maybe some of your takeaways from this whole experience might be?
Yeah, I think one of my my biggest things that I’ve learned is how important like reaching out to people and like even just like social events are.
I feel like I’m definitely somebody who needs to be talking with somebody or like doing something.
I’m not great at being alone.
And I think there’s been a lot of times,
whether it’s being quarantined or just not able to go to class or like not doing anything at night just because we’re asked not to.
Where it’s been really tough to just like be in my room feeling like really isolated.
Yeah. What have you tried to do?
Have you tried to do some things to to work on that or has that felt overwhelming?
What’s that look like?
Yeah, the volleyball team,
there’s a few girls that I’m really close with.
So we hang out,
which has been really nice.
And I’ll FaceTime friends or talk to mom and dad.
And so, yeah, I think just trying to stay connected with other people has really helped.
Has there been anything that you’ve experienced in this time that you think has been good or generative or helpful that you can’t help to carry with you moving forward?
Yeah, it’s been really neat to see just how especially like our team or just the way things are,
like how able to change.
We are like how able to adapt and meet the new circumstances,
whatever it is, and just like be like,
this is what it is.
Like we have to deal with it and you can’t really dwell on it because it’s not going to help.
And so I think that’s been something that’s come out of it is just like being just understanding that you can control what you can and you can’t what you can’t and being OK with that.
As you’ve watched the things unfold around us in our country and in the world, I’m curious,
have you had any things that maybe you’ve been processing about what it means to be an American,
what it means to be a Midwesterner,
going to college, playing volleyball?
I mean,
what has this year done?
Has it changed some of your thoughts about those things?
Has it not?
Yeah, for sure.
So I love Spirit Lake,
but there’s no doubt about it that it’s a lot different than Milwaukee.
Going to school was a little bit of a culture shock.
I mean, I saw it coming,
but it is very different.
And I think being around different people and hearing their stories and talking with them and then just everything that’s happened,
it has been it’s been very eye opening and kind of changed my views in a way.
What has been maybe the most personally challenging part of that experience?
I mean, has it been just a feeling of the newness of it or has it been apart?
Has it been maybe the some of the race conversations?
Has it been some of the medical like what would you say for you has been the most generative?
Probably the racial and diversity conversations.
As like athletics department,
we do like meetings all the time where we like meet with all the athletes or all the head coaches talk about like their policies or how they want to change.
And I feel like it’s been really beneficial.
I’ve been able to like meet new people through those conversations,
which is always kind of hard to like break the ice when you’re talking about like race and everything.
But I think those have been extremely beneficial and very eye opening.
How has faith been helpful for you in this season,
Emma?
Right.
It’s been a lot.
It’s been what I’ve needed to go to when when I’m feeling like lonely or isolated.
I was really lucky.
I found a church up there in Milwaukee that I really liked.
And then being able to watch online here,
too, I just I was able to stay connected and really lean on that when when I was feeling low.
Which is really amazing in the sense that a lot of times folks go to college and it’s just busy and there’s commitments and sometimes our faith journey sort of gets put on the shelf.
I don’t think on purpose,
but I think on accident.
Yeah, for sure.
And yeah, it’s interesting to hear how maybe in the sense of isolation and shutdown,
that’s been less of a reality for you.
Right.
Yeah.
I’ve had a lot of free time.
So I’m curious, as someone who’s gone to New York City on mission trips and was a faithful in youth group,
like, was there anything that we engaged with in youth group?
And we talked about here at First President Light has become more meaningful this year.
I’m definitely like talking with the New York City kids.
We had that that really powerful conversation just about like what it is to live in New York City based on or from Iowa or like their experiences with race.
And then being able to kind of take that with me to another like city area and understand those struggles and like be aware of them,
I think is definitely helped me.
So we are hopefully coming to a thaw in this season.
Yes, hopefully.
We all have hope for for the new normal that will lie ahead.
And I’m curious what are you most looking forward to?
I am looking forward to play volleyball.
I’m so excited for this season.
We’ve started practices again and lifting and I am just ready to play.
I feel like that’s kind of why I decided to go to Milwaukee in the first place.
And it’s been waiting for essentially this season since all the way back in summer.
Yeah.
Well, we wish you a great season and all of the games.
Hopefully you get to play and also hope that you find the relationships and the faith nourishment that you need in this season.
Well, thanks for being with us.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thank you for sharing your story and thanks for allowing others to see just a glimpse of what it’s been like to live in Emma Love All Shoes.
Hey, today we are grateful for Daniel Stover joining us.
Daniel grew up in this congregation,
has been in medical school and working through some residency,
a very strange time to do some of that.
And we very much appreciate Daniel’s time today with us as he reflects on some of his personal experience and some of how this past year has affected him.
Daniel, welcome and thanks.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Glad to sit down and talk with you guys.
So tell us in very broad terms,
Daniel, what you’ve been up to the last year and then maybe we’ll talk about the specifics of how it has changed or how it’s shifted.
Yeah, of course.
So, yeah, gosh, back to the beginning of 2020.
Seems like a while ago,
I was in the middle of my fourth year of medical school and medical school is four years from my last year.
You know, in the beginning of 2020 was doing rotations in the hospital,
seeing patients, you know, kind of doing the normal medical school thing.
But then, of course,
in March, coronavirus hits and then they made the decision to move the medical school rotations to online format.
So I was in a radiology rotation at the time and they moved it all to online in March.
And, yeah, of course, didn’t know how long that would last for.
It’s ended up lasting for quite a long time.
And then I graduated medical school in May.
And then I guess that’s also kind of breezing over in the medical school process.
You get matched into a certain residency program.
So that happened, I believe, back in April.
That was also affected by coronavirus.
That was something else that happened in the last year.
And I was fortunate enough to match into the University of Iowa pediatric residency program.
So which I started in July.
So I’ve been busy doing pediatric residency here in Iowa City since July.
So, Daniel, talk to us, if you would, a little bit about that shift.
I mean, you do this thing for multiple years,
you kind of have an eye toward being in people’s rooms,
hanging out with doctors,
watching them do their thing,
learning and doing that sort of hands on.
And then you make this move toward kind of the online,
a little more distance.
What was that like?
What was maybe helpful in it and what was challenging in it?
Yeah, for sure.
No, it was definitely a different experience for me.
And I mean, I think it varied by rotation.
You know, obviously for radiology,
most of it is imaging.
So you can kind of learn from a distance.
I feel like that one was pretty available to learn from a distance.
There’s lots of case studies you can read online and things of different radiology images.
And that I actually was taking a financial class geared towards medical students for as far as like advice,
for repaying loans and things like that,
which actually that one was fairly amenable to online.
And then my last rotation was sports medicine rotation,
which was certainly more challenging online.
You know, obviously,
as far as physical exam things,
it was more, you know, watching YouTube videos on how to do it,
you know, reading more, more textbook learning.
We would do Zooms with the professors here at Iowa,
and they would kind of put us through case studies saying,
like, you know, let’s say a patient comes in with elbow pain,
you know, what things are you going to ask them
and what things are you going to do on exam.
So I think I think that they navigated it pretty well.
I feel like we’re able to have good resources,
obviously very much different from the hands on learning that you get interacting with patients.
And like you said,
you know, had previously always been interacting with patients.
So it was slightly different,
but I think had,
you know, advantages and disadvantages, advantages of I, you know, I can sit down and study and learn from a book,
which I guess I’m kind of used to by this point.
But the disadvantage of,
of course, you’ll learn it better if you have a patient to connect it to,
you know, Daniel, I think one of the things that happens every time you’re entering into a field is you’re learning the vocabulary
and the rhythms and the patterns of people who have been there.
And I’m curious,
you know, as you begin in your own studies,
you bring questions and ideas.
And I wonder with the switch to distance and digital,
did you find that you were sort of able to look into that with some insight that maybe those ahead
in the field might struggle with?
Did you have some competencies that you just felt like you could bring to the conversation as a younger person,
maybe a digital native,
or did you not find that to be the case?
Oh, you mean like so from a perspective of like maybe being a little more more technology,
like going into it?
Yeah, sure.
No, I think that I mean, I think,
you know,
I do feel like,
you know, able to pick up on the whole Zoom thing pretty well,
you know, kind of knowing how to navigate online resources,
I think is very helpful.
Of course, there’s lots of medical textbooks online and there’s,
you know, medical articles and things that you can get to and read pretty easily,
you know, through access to the university library.
So, yeah, I feel like that was definitely helpful.
So, Daniel,
one of the things that’s happened in some industries is that,
you know, basically all assumptions have been reevaluated.
I know this is probably very early for you to make these kind of projections.
But looking at what you know of the medical field,
is there anything you think 2020 might have changed permanently?
Do you think there’s anything long term that may get shifted in the way that medicine is practiced or taught because of the experience we’ve all gone through this year?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the first thing that jumps to mind would be like more like video visits.
I think that it’s an incredibly invaluable tool to be able to talk with the patient through something like this with Zoom.
And I think as more people get comfortable with it,
I think, you know, it would be a great tool for follow up appointments,
where maybe necessarily the physical exam wouldn’t be as big of a portion.
And you can more just talk with your patient.
I think that it will certainly be something of the future.
And because you can kind of take out,
you know, the difficulty with transportation for patients.
I feel, you know,
you maybe can see a specialist on the other side of the country because,
you know, it doesn’t really matter how far away they are.
I think that will be an incredible resource and access thing that hopefully we can work towards in the future, too.
And then if we switch lenses for a minute and think from a more personal perspective,
you’re a relatively newly married and you are a new uncle.
How how has managing some of your family relationships and some of your personal situations in regards to your connections with other people?
What what was that like?
I mean, clearly that’s challenging enough in the middle of medical school.
But then you add quarantine and distancing and all of that stuff to the mix.
And that had to be a challenge.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I think it’s a big it’s a big challenge.
I’m certainly very thankful for all the technology that we have,
you know, with phone calls and,
you know, Zoom.
You know, I I before 2020,
before coronavirus, I don’t I didn’t really even know what Zoom was.
But now I feel like,
you know, of course, we zoom all the time.
And I feel like I feel like,
you know, we video chatted much more than we ever did in the past.
And I felt like I guess sorry for this sounds like a lame pun,
but I guess I feel like you don’t have to be close to stay close.
I guess if that makes sense,
especially with technology now that you can kind of really stay in contact pretty well,
you know, without literally being in the same room.
Of course, that’s always better.
You know, of course, we always prefer to be in the same room and be physically close to each other as well.
So, yeah, like you said, I think all those things are really tough to navigate,
you know, tough to know, you know,
you know, as far as seeing people with masks and distance,
you know, like you said, of thinking, well, you know, is it worth the risk in this situation?
Or is it, you know, more that we can wait on it until later?
So, no, I think I think that is certainly a big challenge.
And then just one other question sort of along general terms,
then we’ll get into maybe some more specifics of your experience.
But what has it been like being,
you know, near the pinnacle of your formal education?
Not, of course, there’s a lot more to learn and there’s experience and residency.
But as you have been immersed in medicine for the past several years,
and we now find ourselves at this cultural moment where everybody has taken some interest in things like vaccines and viruses and everyone has some,
at least, general access to information.
Maybe it’s good information,
maybe it’s not good information.
What has it been like for suddenly everyone to be,
at least at some level,
interested and maybe even confident in what they have found out there amidst all of the stuff?
I’m kind of curious how a doctor looks at all the rest of us who have been trying to figure things out on our own.
Hey, I mean,
I think overall, you know, more information is good.
But yeah, I feel like I certainly tell patients that often,
as you know, on the Internet, you can kind of find what you’re looking for,
you know, whether that be good or bad information.
I think there are certainly are there is obviously very good information on online and you can find some false information.
So I always try to point,
you know, people to like what I consider to be high quality and reliable information.
And as far as the,
you know, the interest in health literacy,
I guess I like to use the analogy of,
you know, when I go when I go to the car mechanic and they explain to me what they did to my car,
I have no idea what they’re talking about because,
you know, I’m not a car mechanic.
I kind of just need my car to work.
But I think health care is different.
You know,
I mean, I think that if people are coming,
you know, to the doctor and tell,
you know, for their kids, I want them to be kind of take,
you know, take control of their health and have an idea of what’s going on.
So I always try to take a lot of time to really, you know,
explain to them in terms,
you know, that we all can understand as far as what’s going on if we’re talking about a virus,
let’s say, per se,
because I think it’s,
you know, everyone’s an expert on something different.
And I think it’s important for everyone to at least in basics terms understand their health.
Okay, then let’s maybe if we could ask you to be a little more personally reflective.
What for you has been one of the struggles in this?
I feel like for each of us,
there’s been a thing that we’ve had to give up or that we’ve done differently,
a thing that many people have lost,
whether it was, you know, a trip or in your case,
maybe graduation.
But is there something that stands out as a particular disappointment in this last season that you that you still kind of have to come to terms with?
Yeah, I mean, I think I definitely consider myself very fortunate in the last year,
because anything that I’ve had,
I would consider, you know, a minor inconvenience.
But I would say,
I guess, you know, looking back at something a disappointment,
I mean, like you brought up, I guess,
I guess I would think about,
you know, graduation and match day.
Of course, I had always thought of,
you know, big celebration and have family and friends around and things.
And, you know, this was match and graduation was really early on in the coronavirus pandemic.
And at the time,
there was essentially no cases of coronavirus in Northwest Iowa.
And there was actually quite a few in Iowa City.
I don’t know if you remember back.
That was kind of it was one of the earlier places of coronavirus.
So for match day and graduation,
you know,
obviously this didn’t make this decision lightly,
but we decided to just celebrate match day and graduation over Zoom with my family,
which, of course, I had, you know, previously envisioned having all family and friends all be able to make it.
But, you know, with no case of coronavirus in Northwest Iowa and quite a few here,
we kind of just didn’t think it made sense at that time.
Of course, yeah, I’m really fortunate and blessed.
I was able to,
you know, celebrate here with my wife,
which is really, really fun.
But of course, you know, not the way that I had pictured it before.
And I mean, as far as I guess stuff I’d like take away from that,
though, like I definitely am a planner,
as I imagine a lot of people can relate to.
I like to plan and kind of, you know,
write plans and pen and kind of knowing that they’re going to happen.
But obviously, 2020 kind of changed that,
you know, knowing that, you know, plans are going to change.
So I guess that was definitely a change from 2020.
So, Daniel, I’m curious, you know,
everybody in this time has had this interesting relationship with others,
right?
This idea of social distancing,
missing others.
And then we’ve also had these several moments now in this last season where we’ve turned to our TVs and seen things happen with large groups or small groups.
And there’s also this relationship with what’s happening in culture and what’s happening in the sort of divisiveness of the moment.
And I’m curious,
it seems that you’re in a moment which is an intense season unto itself.
And so I wonder when you sort of pick your head up and you look around you at the world and culture in the United States at large,
what have been things that stuck out to you?
What are the things that have been sort of challenging to you as you’ve sort of surveyed the landscape in this last season?
Yeah, I mean, I think kind of as you pointed to.
Yeah, I mean, I think our certainly our culture is more divided than I remember,
you know, I guess in my lifetime.
But kind of like you said,
I’ll definitely go periods if I’m working a lot of hours.
I don’t watch, you know, a whole lot of news.
But obviously, I’m aware of, you know, the division.
Yeah, and it’s, you know, it’s too bad.
I think, you know,
and Clint, you know, had put this out,
I believe in his weekly email,
you know, last week.
I think, you know, I think it really just kind of teaches us that we need to be quick to love rather than quick to judge and quick to,
you know, come together rather than quick to divide.
Daniel, is there something that,
again, personally speaking, you feel like you’ve taken from this?
Is there a lesson that you feel like you are learning or have learned?
I know as a lifelong person of faith,
the idea of growth is something that that you resonate with.
Is there something you feel has been planted in this time that you you think is growing or is beginning to grow?
Absolutely.
You know, and I think, you know, God can turn something out of anything.
And I think,
you know, I certainly hope that from 2020 that things do change.
You know, we keep talking about going back or like,
you know, a new normal when things going to go back to normal.
You know, I hope that we,
you know, move forward and it’s better than it used to be.
I agree that I hope there’s always growth.
And for me, like,
I feel like my biggest takeaway is,
you know,
I feel like this,
I guess if you could use a word to describe 2020,
I feel like it was uncertainty.
You know, I mean, we we didn’t know coronavirus is coming.
We didn’t know how long it was going to be here from medical perspective.
Of course, you know, there’s so many things of coronavirus that we don’t know.
We don’t know what the effects of this virus are one year from now,
five years from now,
ten years from now.
We don’t know, you know, any long term data on anything like that.
So I feel like,
you know, from a faith perspective,
I definitely learned that,
you know, I definitely need to focus on the things I do know for certain.
And that God is always for certain, you know,
and that’s if you put all of your stock,
all of your, you know, reliance on earthly things,
you’re going to be disappointed because earthly things,
you know, are made by humans and humans certainly aren’t perfect.
So I think, you know, we always need to focus on above and focus on things of God.
And I feel like this analogy really hit me last last year.
And I’m sorry, I think this might have been your analogy,
Clint, I’ve listened to a lot of your sermons growing up.
So sorry if I’m stealing this from you.
But I feel like it’s a common phrase for people to say,
like, well, all we all we have left to do is pray.
And I certainly have said that myself.
But it is,
you know, it’s it’s it’s too bad that we think that that is our like our last resort to turn to God,
the God who created heaven and earth,
created me, created you.
And we think of ourselves as,
you know, we’ve tried everything else.
So now all we have left to do is pray.
And I felt I felt I was able to kind of shift that in my head to I mean,
we should start there.
And I feel like, you know,
through 2020, we would had things taken away from us,
you know, and, you know, we we learned that we would try to make plans and it would change or,
you know, we wouldn’t be able to predict a certain thing.
And, you know,
eventually we would turn to something that we know of certain,
you know, like God.
And I think that,
you know, really important to kind of try to start there first.
So I feel like that was something I kind of took away to just, you know,
things are going to change and things are going to be uncertain.
So I think you can have that piece if you focus on the thing that is certain.
Very good.
Yeah. That’s so well spoken,
Daniel.
In terms of where we go from here,
what as a person who has in some at some level,
the the quote unquote end in sight,
which is really beginning for you.
But you’re you’re at a point where you can begin to imagine practicing your craft with some freedom, some autonomy.
And you have this situation,
you know, where you walk into a room and you kind of get whatever’s there.
You don’t you don’t necessarily get to draw your circles.
They get drawn for you.
And as a as a professional,
as a medical professional,
you just take whatever that is and try to do your best.
What what is your hope for the coming year?
What what do you see coming out of this?
What are you looking forward to when this quote unquote begins to go away?
And I don’t know when that is or what it looks like.
But what’s the thing that Daniel Stover or Daniel and Christy,
what what are you guys doing?
How you celebrating?
Oh, that’s a good question.
I mean, I feel like for us,
yeah, we’d love to take a trip.
I feel like vacation would be our our thing we’d like to do.
We had planned to go on a trip like around match day and graduation.
I was going to have like a week or so off before residency started and we had hoped to go on a trip.
So hopefully that’s yeah,
once everything kind of clears out.
But yeah, no, whenever we see that is Daniel,
I’m curious of all of the things,
you know, we were all reflective of the things that we’ve lost this year,
things that we might wish to have back.
So anything that you feel like you lost this year that you’re glad is gone and that you hope doesn’t come back?
I guess that I feel that,
you know, through last year, I guess we had lost maybe some of the the hustle and bustle,
I guess I could call it, you know,
like, you know, your calendar is just full of things.
And I felt like I’ve never so abruptly in my life,
you know, had my calendar cleaned off, you know.
And of course, I would have rather been doing those things and that coronavirus hadn’t existed.
But,
you know, it was nice.
I mean, I feel like I had time.
I feel like I had time to reflect on things.
I had time to, you know,
spend time with the people,
you know, that I really love and care about in my life.
And yeah, that’s a really good point of a reflection of, you know,
and I was kind of OK with that.
And I think, you know, maybe another takeaway to you don’t have to have your entire calendar full,
you know, all the time.
It’s OK to to kind of have some free time as well.
Yeah, I guess, Daniel, as you look back at 2020,
are there any sort of big ideas that we haven’t hit on?
Any sort of themes that that stick in your mind that you feel like maybe you’re going to wrestle with or be discerning about or,
you know, seeking to find meaning in as time goes on here?
I don’t know.
I mean,
I think the biggest one for me was kind of the I feel like we’ve been hit with a lot of the uncertainty in that last year.
But I feel like also,
I mean, the fact that, like, I had a lot of joy and a lot of happiness in 2020 and I hope you guys did, too.
You know, I mean, I think I think reflecting on the fact that, like,
you know,
things can be taken away from us.
But,
you know,
like joy isn’t.
I mean, I think I think joy comes from God,
comes from the Lord.
So it’s here to stay.
Of course, happiness can be more fleeting.
And of course, you’re bombed when stuff got canceled last year and, you know,
things postponed.
But I feel that,
you know, the joy in itself,
the joy in life never went away.
You know, there is always more fun things to do,
you know, even if it was a little maybe a little more confined.
But like we had just said, you know,
in that there is also almost more agency and more freedom to kind of kind of do things on your own time, too.
Very good.
Well, Daniel, we we certainly know and you’ve you’ve mentioned it,
that time is precious and we know that your time is often spoken for.
And so we just want you to know how grateful we are that you would share some of it with us,
that you’d let us kind of see a different experience through your eyes,
that you’d reflect on that with us.
We know that in in one hand,
you know, everybody’s kind of in the same boat dealing with a lot of the same things,
but it hits each of us differently where we live and how we live.
And so looking at this through the lens of other people’s experience,
I think is a helpful way for us to learn.
And we certainly appreciate your thoughtfulness,
your reflectiveness.
And as always, we wish you well and we are grateful to be connected.
And it’s good to know that you’re out there doing what you do.
The families that you serve and minister to through medicine are are going to be blessed because of you.
And we’re grateful for that.
I appreciate that, guys.
And yeah, I appreciate what you guys are doing with with this show and kind of wrestling with the things that people are wrestling about.
I think it’s really helpful stuff.
So thank you to you guys as well.
Yeah, great, man.
We’re proud of you.
And it’s good to talk to you.
Good to talk to you guys, too.