Reflections on 2020: Roger & Donna Harms

Hi, friends.
Welcome back to our next and final interview as we continue through our reflections of 2020.
This week, we’re grateful to Roger and Donna Harms for coming in.
This was in some ways
the most difficult interview to schedule as we looked for someone in the congregation that would
be a part of a group that had been kind of labeled vulnerable and to hear what it’s like to think
that you might be especially in danger from COVID and especially mindful of some of the
restrictions and may be affected by some of the limitations.
So it was really interesting to hear
this perspective from people who both acknowledged that and yet tried to do some things in spite of
that.
And I think that some really interesting themes throughout this interview.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think an important interview,
especially when you frame it in the sense that by definition,
the folks that we know the least about their experience are the ones we haven’t seen.
And there is this whole segment of not only our congregation,
but those within our community
who have very much grappled with what it means to have been labeled this thing vulnerable,
to have been told that in a group of people,
you are at most risk of this virus.
And the responses to that have been as individual as the people themselves.
And I think what Roger
and Donna do so graciously is they offer us a window into not only their own sort of choices
and responses, but also some of that of their connections of knowing that there are many
different people navigating this season in different ways.
And when you get an opportunity
to hear it from their point of view,
I think what it does is it helps all of us regardless of what
our experience or response has been to recognize that there are those who’ve had a radically
different experience than ourselves.
And it is, I think, an unbelievable opportunity really,
to get to hear from those who we quite frankly haven’t heard as much from as we are used to.
Yeah, I think there are some really kind of profound and deep moments woven in and out of
this conversation, some stuff that I left really thinking about in regard to not only how we face
those situations in which we make decisions about our health,
but maybe in some ways more
importantly, the quality of our life and how it is that we navigate situations like we’ve been in
and make the trade-offs to the things that bring us energy and to some extent bring us life
with the things that maybe even curtail that or threaten that possibly.
And so I think there was
a lot to be said for this interview and I think you’ll enjoy it.
Yeah, ultimately, I think we can
all be encouraged as we hear from Roger and Donna really to turn our attention to the choices that
we make at every stage of life.
And as they reflect upon some of the significance of what
happens when you lose time in their own stage of life,
I think it is an invitation to all of us to
recognize that time is indeed precious and that the choices that we make regardless of where we
find ourselves in life’s journey matter.
And so thank you to them for sharing their time with us.
Thank you to all of those who have participated in these interviews.
I know that I’ve been
blessed by the sharing of perspectives that we’ve heard and the empathy that we build for
one another in that.
So without further ado,
here’s this conversation that we had with Roger and Donna Harms.
[Music] [Music]
Hey friends,
welcome back to our interview series on reflections of 2020.
Today, we’re grateful Roger and Donna Harms are with us,
well known in the congregation,
no stranger to anyone at First Presbyterian Church.
We’re grateful to have them be with us and to
have them share some of the experiences of the past year through their lens and through their
experience.
Guys, welcome and thanks for being a part of this.
You’re welcome.
Yeah, so to get started,
tell us your recollection now nearly a year ago.
In fact, maybe a year ago by
the time that this airs,
that the first kind of inklings you had that this was going to be
something that was going to impact you,
that was going to impact our area,
that was going to mean
some changes.
You know, back then we all kind of,
I think we were thinking short term or much shorter
term than it ended up being,
but what was your first experience with that?
What were you thinking
and what do you remember that it changed for you first?
Yeah, we were in Florida.
Okay.
And I guess we didn’t really realize the full impact of it for a while.
And then our friends that are down
there with us got a call from their daughter,
like the first of March saying,
“We want you to come
home.” And they did, they left early.
And so we stayed a while and then the beaches were closing down down there.
And you know, we kept hearing more things,
but still in Florida,
it seemed kind of loose, you know.
So, but we decided that we would come home,
we came home about three weeks early.
And then I got really nervous because we had,
you know, we had two nights that we’d have
to be in a motel.
So that was scary.
And of course, it was all different than in the motels too.
There was no breakfast anymore.
They gave you a bag,
you know, to take.
And I can’t, one of our bigger shocks was we’d grab something at McDonald’s for our noon meal.
And then we’d try to stay at someplace,
go eat out at someplace nice in the evening.
Well,
they closed the restrooms even.
You could order food at McDonald’s,
but you couldn’t go in all the restrooms.
And so that was a little tough when you’re on the road and you can’t stop at a restroom.
The gas stations had them open.
So that’s where we would have to go.
But you want to add to that, honey?
Well,
going back to Florida,
the first things were we still had tickets for spring training games and
even a couple of concerts,
which the spring training games,
we actually did get a rebate.
But all of those things were closing down.
So we thought,
well, we’ll go back to
Spirit Lake because things there will be going,
you know?
I mean, the restaurants will be open and so forth.
And of course, when we got back here,
it was further disappointment because
lots of the things that we were intending and planning to do through the summer
were starting to be
canceled.
But that was early.
But I mean, it would be one thing after another.
No concerts,
no summer theater.
Yeah, that was a big one for us.
And it just,
you thought by fall,
it will be different.
And then fall comes and we’re talking about not having school and
those kinds of things.
So, you know, it’s more of a disappointment type of thing for
us.
I mean, we didn’t lose a job.
We didn’t have children going to school that we had to worry about
and how are they,
you know?
But it seemed like it was just a series of disappointments.
One, you know, well, we’ll look forward to this.
No, that’s now been canceled.
So it kind of went
that way all summer long.
That’s really interesting.
On two fronts.
First,
the idea I think is different
for most of us of navigating that initial phase somewhere else.
I mean, I think a lot of us tend
to think we, you know, we were here and your demographic has probably more people in it
who were in Arizona and Texas and Florida during some of that and had to make some of those changes
on the fly or even traveling home.
And a lot of us,
I think that’s not something I had thought
about because it wasn’t really our experience at all.
And then the second thing is I think you’re
exactly right, Roger, that the fact that we didn’t know at the outset how long it would continue
made it always feel like,
oh, it’s worse.
It’s worse again.
It’s worse again.
And by worse, I don’t necessarily mean the thing itself,
but the impact of the thing.
And so it’s going to be two
weeks.
No, it’s going to be four.
No, it’s going to be six.
It’s going to be three months,
you know?
And I don’t think,
to my recollection,
nobody early was having those kinds of conversations.
I remember that when we got word shut down church for a while,
they were talking two weeks,
you know, maybe four, depending on what happened.
And here we are 12 months later still feeling some of the impact of it.
I think your characterization of a string of disappointments probably resonates
with a lot of people.
Well, then we had been,
you know, gone for three months.
And of course, the first thing you want to do when you get back is see your family.
We’d had some of our family
visit us in Florida,
but so we got back and, of course,
Keelson Harbor, where my mom is,
that was close to visitors.
And that was really hard.
And I know later in the summer when we
wanted to thought, well, maybe we can visit our family in Wisconsin,
our daughter-in-law said, you stay put.
And so, I mean, we still haven’t seen our grandchildren and
seen some of our sons just because they were down for other reasons.
But again, the first time you
see them and we’re a huggy family,
could not touch them.
You know, that was really hard.
So
it’s been a long,
a long year for us.
You know, it makes me think of that very thing.
Because I’ve heard over and over again,
and in fact, I’ve got to confess to you,
I’ve done it myself,
where younger people say to some of their older loved ones,
this is the way it’s going to be,
in a sense of,
I think, trying to make it easier.
I think the heart and intention is,
we want you to be safe.
And so,
you know,
for instance, with my grandmother, we did make the
choice, even when some visits were allowed,
that no, we need her to stay safe.
And I’m interested
on the the receiving end of that,
because I’m sure there is a sense that you’re grateful that
people love and that they care.
But that’s also got to be frustrating on some level.
What is that like to be on the receiving end of that kind of strange love?
Well, that was okay.
I mean, you knew it was for your own good.
But I just remember that the very words my Our One Daughter
and Order said, you stay put.
And because we were going to go see them,
we have a great grandchild too.
And so it’s just all,
it’s hard,
but, but grateful, grateful that they care that much, you know.
And maybe related to that idea,
you know, as we progressed through the months,
initially, there was probably some sense of vulnerability and maybe anxiety for everyone.
But then, as we continued to see the statistics and learn more,
and one of the things we learned is that the,
essentially, the older you were,
in some ways, the more vulnerable you were.
And particularly for people on the other side of retirement,
was there a moment that that felt true for you?
You know, so Michael and I have had this conversation.
Neither of us have felt particularly
vulnerable in this.
I mean, obviously, no one wants to be sick.
But when you look at the numbers, you think,
I would really have to lose the statistical lottery to have something very bad
happen.
But that changes as you move up the age range.
And so one of the reasons we
hoped to talk to some folks in that demographic was,
talk to us about what it means to be labeled
vulnerable.
Did you, did you feel vulnerable?
Did you resent that?
Did it seem true?
What, what impact does that have to be in the quote unquote vulnerable group?
Well, I think when you’re talking about the vulnerable group,
we’re vulnerable,
more vulnerable, because we have some other underlying conditions.
Okay, so it added to that.
Yes.
Yeah.
So you’re already battling something most likely.
Yeah.
And then you realize,
well, if I get this on top of that,
what is my immune system,
you know, like, and am I going to be able
to battle it successfully?
So I think you get a little depressed at times.
And I think you get a little worried,
maybe scared.
Yeah. And you don’t maybe do the same things that you would do.
Right.
You don’t go to, well,
the softball games or something that,
and you are more aware,
if I go to this place,
are people going to be wearing their mask or not?
And if not,
then I don’t think I want to go.
Those types of things.
Go ahead.
Well, you have to make a lot of decisions like,
do you,
you had the opportunity to have your groceries
delivered to you, or you can order them and pick them up.
And we had to make those decisions.
And we decided that we just would try to be careful.
We wanted to get our
own groceries and try to go at a time when it wasn’t busy.
So we did continue to do that.
And, you know, somewhere along the way,
Roger did develop COVID,
but we have no idea where,
because we were very, very careful.
And I know we didn’t have anybody to our house,
and we did visit some of our friends in Estherville in their garage,
sitting
way far away in their garage, you know?
And so we tried to be careful, but
you still have to make some decisions.
What are you actually feeling like you need to do?
And we needed to get out.
And when the weather was nice,
we were so grateful for the walking trails, because
we walked every day.
You know, the Y closed, we couldn’t go to the Y.
So we did, we walked and we stayed outside,
but we were even very careful then.
If we met somebody on the trail,
we got clear over on our side, you know?
And so…
In some ways,
you know,
I think we were closer, Donna and I,
because we only basically had each other.
So we really looked forward to
the walks that we would have.
Sometimes we just rode around the area.
And we probably know every
new house that’s being built right now,
and so forth.
Yeah, there’s,
and some of this is driven,
but the house begins to feel pretty small.
I mean, just the ability to go for groceries,
the ability to go for a drive,
take a walk.
I think lots of people found some footholds in those
things and some sanity in that being a part of their new routine,
and took a little less,
maybe took a little less focus off what we had lost in that we could still do some other things
that we wanted to do.
Yeah, that’s interesting.
Well, and Roger started out,
he has a pool group
of four, and they rotate, you know, houses once a week,
and he also has a cribbage group.
And so they started out continuing to do that,
wearing their masks and changing all their
routine, no treats, no this, no that.
And, but there was a point even when that got a little scary.
So they stopped that even.
Yeah.
That was hard.
Yeah,
we’ve had this conversation
at some point in every one of these interviews,
you know,
not only did we experience something that produced stress,
it took away some of the things we do to navigate stress.
Right.
And so you had that kind of double whammy happening where we’re losing our support groups,
we’re losing, you know,
Tuesday coffee and whatever it is that we did and enjoyed,
and we sort of used to
navigate some of that.
Not only do we have this thing over here with lots of anxiety in it,
we couldn’t do some of the things we normally do to mitigate that.
Yeah. Very true.
I’m curious when you survey your community,
your friend group, the people that you associate with,
would you say that there was largely a pretty similar response amongst the people that you
know that everybody sort of did mostly the same things or was there significant differences of
opinions about how to do things?
And did you have to navigate with that with your own friends?
I would say
more of our friends were even a little more cautious than we were.
Wouldn’t you say that,
Roger?
Yes, but then more casual friends were eating out more,
playing golf more, and so forth.
So
the older they got, more cautious.
Yes, yes, yes.
A lot of our friends are younger than us,
probably by 10 years or so,
and they were more casual about it,
but the older people were very
cautious, wouldn’t you say?
Yes, yes.
As you think back over that last year,
all of us,
you know, clearly we all had some plans that were affected and some things that we had hoped to do,
and you mentioned time with family.
Were there other things that you look back on that you lost,
that you really missed,
or that you had hoped to do?
As you look back,
were there kind of
major disappointments in the things you had to give up?
Well, we had a cruise planned toward the end of July.
That, of course, was canceled,
and I think in a sense,
you know,
when you get to be our age,
you know there’s a limited number of years left,
and when you lose a whole year
out of maybe five,
that’s 20 percent,
and you do feel disappointed that I didn’t get to do
these things,
but in the whole realm of things,
you know, those are just experiences.
They didn’t affect our livelihood.
It didn’t affect, you know, the ability to do things,
but there were some major disappointments, yes.
That’s really interesting, Roger.
You know,
I think,
just by the way age worked,
I think the farther up the latter one is,
and I heard some of these conversations most explicitly,
I think, in nursing home situations,
care centers,
that balance of being careful and not wanting to take risks with one’s health versus
what are the things worth giving up,
so the people in the care centers who
many of them might have said,
I would much rather have my chances with COVID than lose a year of
visiting with my family.
Now, unfortunately, we didn’t know that was the choice anybody was
making at the time,
but it’s an interesting idea that at one point in your life,
that year doesn’t look,
it just looks like,
ah, this is a pain,
we all have to deal with it,
and another point, it begins to look like,
is it worth the trade-off,
and that’s not something I had really
considered.
That’s really an interesting thought.
My worst experience of the whole thing was my mother,
103,
and I hadn’t seen her,
got back, and couldn’t see her where we live very close,
five blocks from Keelson,
and I would see her probably every other day.
I mean, I could just visit,
and that was very difficult,
because it was so very difficult for her,
and there was a time
when we could visit outside,
and that was nice,
but she never really could or still doesn’t
understand the whole thing completely.
I mean, she knows she can’t do this,
and she knows she can’t
do that, but she still would say, “Well, can’t you,
I’ve got coffee made,
you know, I’ve got the table set,” and that’s been just so difficult,
and she has gone downhill mentally, just immensely.
I think before we left last year,
yes, she was forgetful, yes, she repeated herself,
but pretty
with it, you know, and but now it’s just,
oh, it’s just,
it’s really hard.
Now they’ve gotten,
in the last two weeks,
we’ve gotten to visit again in the lobby for 30 minutes,
and with all the gear
on, you know, and she comes in,
you know, to visit with us, but she can’t,
she doesn’t keep her mask
on, she won’t keep her mask on in the hallway,
I think she does,
but it’s really hard,
and she’ll still say, “Well, I’m,
you know,
can’t you come in for coffee?” So,
and again, you talk about years left at 103,
and none of her family can see her,
and except for just a few minutes,
so she hasn’t seen
her grandkid, was she?
I guess in the wintertime,
there was a time when you could visit through,
you know, the windows and things,
and they would talk to her,
but it’s just,
of all the things that hurt,
that was it, more than anything.
That’s, again, a very interesting
intersection down in between,
on one hand, people,
your family,
sort of speaking into you being
careful, but then on the other hand,
you doing that as well with your own mother,
and then unfortunately, the reality that at 103,
you have probably zero interest in the ways in which the
rest of us navigated losing that with Zoom calls and FaceTime,
I mean, that’s not a generation that is
going to be particularly able and willing to integrate the technology that most of us use
to kind of compensate,
and so, yeah, that’s, it’s interesting that you’re having both
ends of the spectrum at once.
Roger, would you,
yes or no, on your COVID experience?
Is that something you want to stay away from,
or does it matter?
No, it doesn’t matter at all.
I had a
moderate case, I would say.
It never got into my lungs and so forth.
After I found out that I was
positive in the AAM,
they called me in that afternoon to get a cocktail of drugs by infusion,
which was supposed to alleviate the danger of having to go to the hospital or
death from the virus,
so they said that I would probably feel better than I was.
I didn’t think that it made a big difference with the way I was feeling,
but I never
felt terrible.
I think,
you know, I was running a fever.
I had no appetite.
I lost quite a lot of weight,
feeling nauseous quite a bit,
those kinds of things,
but never in my lungs.
So, of course,
I’m somewhat of a,
well, I’m a big worrier,
I guess,
and I kept thinking,
you know,
is this going to get worse?
Is it going to go to my lungs?
So, every morning when you get up,
do I have a sore throat?
Do I have, you know, a new melody?
And luckily,
I did not,
but
Donna relegated me to the downstairs,
and that was,
being alone,
I would come up during the daytime,
but during the night and so forth,
when you wake up and you have these thoughts and not having anyone there to share them with,
that’s a little more difficult.
I certainly feel sorry for people that are single,
that would get the disease.
I think you feel that once you’re done with COVID,
that you’re going to feel better all the time,
but for me, there are some after effects.
That hasn’t been the case.
My digestive system just does not work like it did before I had it,
but again,
those are mild,
and so I can work through them.
But I guess,
overall,
you know, I didn’t ever feel like I was going to have to go to the hospital or something like that.
So, I know lots and lots of people that had a much worse case than I did.
It must,
I would assume any reasonable person,
there must be some anxiety in this
thing that we’ve been all trying not to catch and then to find out,
well, now I have it and
wondering what next.
Even around here or at home,
we laugh every time you cough or sneeze or you
think, oh, is this it?
Now, is it finally here?
And so, I think it would be very natural to have
some apprehension going to sleep each night thinking,
okay, are we headed uphill or downhill?
I can’t imagine that that wouldn’t be how most people would react.
And I’ve heard numerous times from people about the fact,
if we’re honest, all of us have had
anxiety at some level throughout this whole time,
especially I don’t want to catch it if I did catch
it.
Even for a young person,
there’s still news stories of bad things happening.
So,
you sort of have this anxiety and then I’ve talked with people,
when they get that positive test,
it’s another level of anxiety that now it’s here,
what’s it going to mean?
And yet, then there’s still the anxiety on the other side of,
is my loved one going to get it?
What’s the long term
effects going to be?
And you’ve named all of these things and I’m curious,
did you guys have to build
new habits or practices or did you have to return to old practices?
Where did you find help
dealing with some of that worry,
some of that fear,
some of that anxiety?
Did you find new tools?
Did you have to dust off old ones?
What did you find helpful to navigate all of those things?
I’m just going to answer one little part of that.
Part of the anxiety also is that
there’s really no place to go.
You say, if I get worse,
do I go to the care center?
Do I go to the hospital?
They didn’t want you there.
You didn’t know where you could go that you could get answers.
There wasn’t anything to take.
If you feel bad,
take aspirin.
That was it.
You didn’t get cough medicine.
You didn’t get the normal things that you might for a different kind of malady.
And so that part was stressful.
If I do get worse,
what do I do?
I think any prognosis that includes the words,
“Call us if you get worse,” is by definition going to produce some anxiety and the one who is hoping
you don’t have to then make that call.
So what did that look like navigating?
Not only that specifically, but in general, this idea of dealing with that stress.
What worked for you guys?
Well, as the time after 14 days or 10 days is that you’re not supposed to be able to pass it on.
You’re supposed to be immune.
Well, that was kind of an anxious time for me because,
well, for both of us really,
I hadn’t gotten it.
And that was really fortunate.
But then the time after
he’s supposed to not pass it on,
you still don’t know how kind of to treat each other.
I mean, even when he came upstairs and then we slept in our own bed together,
he didn’t want to kiss me,
nor did I really want him to kiss me.
And we even slept on,
you know, far sides of the bed.
It was really a different experience,
you know, how is this safe now?
Can we do this or can’t we do this?
So our comfort level with each other in that respect changed.
We’d watch TV,
he clear on one
side of the sofa,
me clear on the other side,
you know, and of course we washed our hands a lot and
tried to be just as careful as we could with food and everything, you know.
Food was a problem because what Donna could eat,
I didn’t feel comfortable eating,
or she would make something and I would say,
“Well, I really don’t feel like eating.”
I couldn’t get him to eat.
And that worried me because I could see him just,
you know, he’s never big to start with and I think he lost maybe over 10 pounds and I could see that
going down.
And so I tried to fix something that I thought would be good for him and he couldn’t
eat it.
Or then when he got a little better,
he wouldn’t eat anything that had any spice at all.
And so it got so I cooked for him and cooked for me and it was kind of a tense time.
Yeah.
And you mentioned walking.
And we talked a little bit about reading.
Were there other
practices that you all felt have been really important during,
again, maybe that time, but just this time in general that you’ve found helpful to just kind of offset the moments when
we have been worried?
Yeah. Well, he liked me.
I had never read to him before because,
well, we each had our own books, but he,
when I read, of course, that had to do with his eye
surgeries too.
It wasn’t really COVID related,
but we found that quite a pleasurable thing.
He liked hearing me read and I didn’t,
I thought some of his books weren’t the ones I would choose,
but we did do that.
And then even maybe last week he said,
would you read that?
Would you read to
me for a little bit because my eyes are tired?
So you find new and different things that you
like to do together.
And we’re pretty compatible and you probably want to get to that later,
but I think we found that, yes,
we miss our friends, of course,
but we also
were just comfortable being with each other, really.
And you’ve been married how long?
35 years.
Yeah, 35 years.
That’s good.
Yeah. I think, you know,
right now we really enjoy the Bible study things.
We look forward to that
coming on at two o’clock.
And at first we missed not having the Bible study,
the weekly one that we would have,
but I think it’s,
we have not been in the chancel.
We haven’t been here yet for church.
But we certainly think that you have done a wonderful
job in making the services on Sunday and the Bible studies accessible
to us.
Yeah. I think one of the things everybody has expressed is that they miss that
point of connection.
And so I think for a lot of people,
just any kind of
semblance of that has been helpful.
Donny, you mentioned a positive.
So, I mean, why don’t we go that direction as you think through one of the things we’ve tended to say is, you know,
nothing, very few things are all bad.
So what,
as you look back has been
upsides to this experience for you.
What do you feel like when this is over,
I’m going to take
this with me and maybe without this last stuff we’ve all been through,
I wouldn’t have known it or I wouldn’t have learned it.
Well,
our spending time, you know, when this is over,
we’ll still go back to doing
things with our friends.
But I think just our time together, we really enjoy.
And I think just the simple things like we would walk the trails,
then we’d have our coffee mugs along and
we’d go grab coffee through McDonald’s and then we’d just take a ride.
Every day we did that,
you know, and I don’t think we’ll give that up.
I think we’ll spend more time just
having our coffee together
after class or something and going on our rides.
I’ve enjoyed that.
With my children,
it’s been kind of neat.
You know,
you talk about the evils of texting,
but instead of talking, but you know,
my kids have started this kind of group text and it’s
been so interesting.
You know, I’ve got an early riser there and 5.30 I’ll hear my phone do something
and it’ll be happy Monday.
And then the rest of the family kind of just adds to it.
And so we communicate with them a lot more by text than we do by telephone because they’re working
and they’re busy and but they managed to do that.
And that’s been kind of an upper for me, you know,
crazy things they’ll say or come up with.
And I think we’ll probably do more texting.
We won’t lose our talking to each other,
but I think we’ll communicate more on a almost a daily basis.
So that’s been an upper.
I think we appreciate our friends more also.
I mean,
we really miss them.
Yeah. And you don’t always sometimes you disagree with friends and so forth and
even argue about things.
And I think I’ll just appreciate them more and get to see them more again.
It’s well said.
I always baked cookies for his for his cribbage group and his pool group.
And they always look forward to those cookies.
And so I haven’t baked as many cookies.
And I kind of miss that.
I still bake them.
But now this the guy that cleans our driveway,
if I can catch him,
you know, he gives the cookies.
He’s the winner.
He’s the winner.
That’s a pretty that’s a pretty good prize.
Yeah,
that’s great.
I think one other thing that
I realized more how busy Donna is and doing household chores and things is I’m just around more.
She mentioned some of my activities and especially if I would play golf.
I mean, sometimes I would take four or five hours out of the day and Donna would be baking or
or cleaning or something like that.
Now that I’m at home more,
I realize that I’m not doing
my share of the work.
He’s helping me more without even asking him.
He’s he’s up doing not not that
he never did help because he did,
but he helps more now.
And I and I say something to him,
I can do this.
And he’ll say, well, I have to have something to do
as people who like reading and come to Bible studies and find the life of the mind important.
Have there been any lessons that you think you’ve learned in this season?
Is there is there a
tidbit that you think you’ll carry with you from this season?
Either something maybe you’ve seen
in the world or you’ve read that’s been meaningful.
What what have you learned in this season?
I’d say be grateful for what you have through all of this.
I mean,
during our year, we’ve had two eye surgeries.
We’ve had covid.
I’ve had a knee replacement and it makes you just
really grateful for what you have.
And despite all that,
we are we are healthy for our age and
just grateful for every day,
I think more now.
Yeah, I think we realize that we do have a lot
to be grateful for family.
And we really don’t have to worry
except what we want to bring into our daily life, I guess.
I mean, and we have plenty to eat.
We have a nice home.
So I think we do feel more grateful
for what we have right now.
That seems like a wonderful takeaway,
you know,
that somehow
somehow losing some portions of life make us more grateful for the portions we could have
perhaps been taking for granted.
I think I think that’s a that’s a great reflection.
I think that’s
spiritual maturity.
I think that’s wisdom.
And I think that’s a very good insight for the rest of us.
I pray more.
I pray more.
I know that.
Well,
guys, we’re just we’re grateful that you’d come in
and share part of your story with us.
We’re thankful for your time.
We obviously miss having
you here.
It’s good to have you back in the building.
We look forward to hopefully more of
that in the in the near future.
But thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
We’re grateful for both of you.
Thank you for asking us.
Yeah, we’re grateful for you guys.