Christian Character | Unhindered

Hello, friends,
and welcome back to the Pastor Talk podcast.
We are glad to have you with us again today as we continue on in this series
that we are calling Unhindered.
It’s a really interesting series in which we are attempting to take
an opportunity here at the beginning of a new year and to use this as a moment
in which we can reflect a little bit upon where we both have been
and where we are right now and for that to become an opportunity
for us to make some choices about where we might want to go in our own faith
and our own discipleship as we seek to embody the life and joy and the faith
of Jesus Christ.
And so we’ve had now two conversations in which we’ve looked at different
aspects of our lives.
And today we’re going to be turning our attention to this idea of attitude,
of demeanor, maybe better describe Clint as character.
And I think you’ve summarized this really well.
So I’m going to just have you lead us into this here today.
Yeah, just a reminder, if you’re new with us,
there are a couple of sessions
in this series that you might want to look at before this one.
But we’re doing this kind of under the auspices of a spiritual checkup of kind
of taking our spiritual temperature in various areas along different themes
and sort of allowing ourselves to be challenged in those areas to see
if there are any places that we should concentrate some effort and focus
on maybe trying to grow through some of our struggles.
And today we look at just kind of our overall demeanor.
How is it that we interact in the world, primarily relationally?
What is it that others know of us?
What is it that others see in us?
And I think Christianity and character are a very natural pairing.
But I do think,
Michael, there’s a danger in them.
It is far too easy,
too often,
to sort of associate Christianity with,
quote, unquote, “being nice,” being, quote, unquote,
“good people.” And this isn’t that.
Yes,
the Bible,
the faith cares about how we live,
but not towards some generic goal of being nice people,
good citizens,
good neighbors.
All of that is seen biblically as a way to reflect our faith in Jesus Christ.
It is all part of our discipleship.
So I think it’s important to say on the front end that the end goal is not to be
some cultural example of what a nice guy or a nice girl is.
Yes, that may be true,
but that’s not the point.
The point is,
in what ways does Jesus Christ and our faith in Him shape how we speak,
how we act,
how we interact with others,
and our overall sense of who we are,
both to self and those around us.
And I think that’s—it’s important to know that that’s where we’re trying to get.
I think that’s a very helpful corrective there,
Clint. And one of the things that needs said right at the beginning of a conversation like this
is that fundamentally, as we come to assess ourselves,
it’s not for the purpose of
beating ourselves up.
Some of our habits,
some of us have that as a practice.
When we get honest about our faults,
we take that as an opportunity to
really beat ourselves up over those faults.
As Christians,
we expect them to be there.
We would in fact be completely shocked and dumbfounded.
We would be in literal disbelief if we looked at ourselves and didn’t see places
that didn’t meet the mark because of this reality that we talk about of sin.
So when we come to really give an assessment of our attitude and demeanor,
what we’re asking you to do is to not find the places of guilt that recur over and over again
so that you can beat yourself up over that again,
but rather to have an honest assessment
where have I been strong?
Where maybe have I been weak and where could I put some new emphasis in the new year?
One thing Clint that has struck me in the last year and a half in particular has been
though time has sort of marched on in a way,
it has for many of us gone very slowly.
And in the midst of that process,
we might have moved in some of these categories that
we’re not even aware of at this point that we may be at one point would have considered
ourselves a pretty patient person.
But today, if we’re going to be honest,
we find ourselves turning to inpatients
more often than patients.
If that’s true,
that’s an important thing to know,
because that may be a reflection of
something far deeper, not just our behavior with others, though that matters.
But the actual seedbed or the soil from which that’s growing.
This may be an indication of a place where we need to spend some time in prayer and reflection
and maybe even healing.
And that’s why we turn to a topic like this.
One of the challenges of this particular week or this podcast is that in some ways,
Michael, I think this may be the broadest session of the series.
In other words,
rather than one coherent theme that we’re trying to do on most other weeks,
gratitude or maybe struggling with some of our sins or something along those lines,
when we talk about our character,
we’re all over the place.
Our patients,
how we talk, how we act, are we trustworthy,
our general attitude, are we optimistic,
are we pessimistic?
I think there’s a variety of ways that we can connect with that conversation.
And one of the things that means is that there’s very likely ebb and flow in that.
As you mentioned, there are seasons in which one of those things may be very strong for us,
may be a strength that we lean on.
And then as we kind of move into another scenario,
perhaps we find ourselves backsliding in that area
or struggling in that area.
And so this is to be intended as a kind of snapshot.
Where are we right now in regard to some of these character traits,
some of these discipleship practices?
And what do we learn from the snapshot?
Where do we see that we are doing well?
And where do we see that we might need to invest some time,
some thought, some prayer and effort in doing better?
And I hope that it will be helpful.
For some of these things,
you’re going to say,
“No, that’s not an issue for me at all.”
But I think there may be others where you say,
“Oh, yeah, that could use some work in my life.”
There’s a risk here of sounding repetitive.
And I’m going to try to be very clear how this,
I think, is an important point to note
before we jump in here today.
And that is when we hear Jesus talking with the disciples about, say,
topics such as lust.
When Jesus talks to the disciples,
he says, “It’s not just about you keeping yourself
from having adultery.
It’s not just about the action that you take.”
Rather, as we know, he says, “If you even look at a woman lustfully,
that that is a commission of sin.”
And what Jesus does in doing that is to say that the outward effect,
the thing that pulls our
attention most easily, quite frankly, Christians, I think, have historically maybe been the first
to point out, “Don’t do this and this and this and this,” is our temptation.
What we miss in that emphasis is the reality that we’re called as Christians to an even higher level
of reflection, where we look inward and we see that it’s actually the lust that lives inside our heart.
That internal sinfulness is the thing that Jesus says is the thing that ultimately draws us deeper
into our human temptations.
And this is when we turn to this conversation, what’s so essential.
We’re going to talk about things about how we interact with people.
Are we patient?
Are we kind?
Are we generally happy?
What’s our disposition in life?
And the temptation would be to think that it is those things unto themselves that matter,
that if we don’t have a pleasant disposition or if we sometimes resort to anger,
that these are the things that are the worst problems on the table.
I would put to you that if we’re willing to use that as like the tip of the iceberg,
to say that this may reflect something that’s even deeper under the surface of our souls,
as we prayerfully reflect humbly and courageously invite the spirit to really reveal to us what’s happening there,
I imagine most of us are going to discover that these things are small compared
to the things that live underneath,
that if we are willing to really live there in an uncomfortable moment,
the stuff that’s by definition outward,
those things that other people might even see in us,
these things may be far more deep in reflecting for us internal personal struggles
and truths.
And if that’s the case,
then this becomes for us an opportunity to really dig in
into the future and to grow in some substantial ways.
Yeah. And there is some overlap here that we’ll see.
Some of these traits that we’ll talk about
are in many ways tied to our individual personalities.
We may be kind of
wired as a person to be pessimistic,
to be optimistic, to be outgoing, to be shy, but this is not a personality assessment in that sense.
This is a question of how is it that we
live out our faith in such a way that it is a witness to others?
And in the Southern church
that we often have this language of what is our witness?
And I don’t mean here our preaching
evangelism.
I mean that if we wear the label Christian and people look at us and see the way
we live and interact with them and others,
how is it that our faith shows through those moments?
How is it that we could demonstrate our personal allegiance to Jesus in how we live our life?
And I think, you know,
that makes, again, that makes this session a little different.
Many of the other
sessions we’re talking about are a little bit more of our private inner spiritual kind of
struggles or goals,
but this one is that question I think hangs over.
How do we live our faith in
the world and how do we both benefit our witness and detract from it?
And I think, you know, that helps.
There’s a quote from supposedly from St.
Francis of Assisi that says,
“Preach the gospel and if necessary use words.” And that’s, I think,
kind of where we’re landing today.
How is it that
some of our life points to Jesus and how can more of it do that?
Yeah, I think that this is by
definition tricky.
If you were with us for the last conversation when we were talking about generosity,
Clint and I were talking about something as practical as the tip that we give,
how that can be a reflection of our level of generosity and our open-handedness.
And
that is, I think, maybe the prickly part of this conversation is how practical it is.
When you go to the post office and you’re engaging with the staff there,
when the thing isn’t going
well or you’re frustrated,
what’s your first bet?
Is it to deal with that calmly?
Do you have some patience?
Are you grateful that these folks are trying to help you?
Or does that turn to frustration
or does that maybe even turn to anger and raised voice?
I mean,
on one hand,
we just have to admit
as Christians that we’re never going to get it right all the time.
And in fact, that’s not the point today.
The point isn’t to try to strive to be perfect people because I’m not even sure what
that would mean.
I don’t know what the “perfect person” in quotes would look like.
What I do know
is we’re called to be people whose lives more and more reflect the kind of spiritual fruit
that comes from those who have had a life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ.
And we know what that is, right?
Love,
faith, hope.
These are the things that Paul lists out,
that we have the spiritual
gifts.
You know, we have these moments in scripture where it’s very clearly laid out that though we
have personal propensities, though we have innate ways that we might respond to circumstances,
and in some seasons, maybe those are even darker than what our “normal” would be,
we as Christians are
called to each and every day wake up and to set our task on being those who live in another step
of constant conversion.
That those things that would reflect our brokenness, we put aside.
And those things that reflect the grace, gratitude,
and forgiveness of Jesus Christ,
that those things become front and center.
And the problem with that,
Clint, if we’re going to be honest, I think,
is
how practical that actually is.
When we’re talking to our children,
when we’re going to the post office,
when we’re dealing with people at the bank,
when the credit card people call and say that your card
was hacked.
I mean, these are things that are a natural part of our human life.
And how we respond
in those circumstances does give us a window into some of the things that may be happening underneath.
So our public presentation,
those words that we live out,
right?
Not the words spoken,
but the words that are shown,
have a very powerful way of revealing to us the faith that lives under the
faith.
Right.
And I think historically,
one of the most damaging realities of the church has been
when we as individual Christians have a disconnect in our public life and our spiritual life.
When
Christians fail, when Christians throw fits,
when Christians are angry,
when Christians get caught
having affairs, when people of faith fail publicly,
it hurts our collective witness.
And it’s not that we are called to be perfect or establish some sort of better than you
persona in the world.
It is that when we fail to example,
be examples of what it means to be
disciples, then the overall picture is damaged.
And so let’s maybe it’ll be practical,
Michael, let’s kind of move into some particulars.
As we went through these ideas this week, we tried,
you know, there’s not really one place in Scripture where you just see,
do this, this, this, and this.
What there is is this sort of collection of verses that speak to various traits,
practices,
refrain, things to refrain from in some instances.
And we tried to be aware,
we tried to compile a kind of guiding list of what some of those things are.
And so as we work
through the assessment, and again,
I think you’ll find it helpful to have this with you if possible.
So if you haven’t done that yet,
you may want to push pause,
you may want to print that out from the website,
the link.
And I think you’ll find to have it with you is a helpful thing as we talk
about it.
But so this first eight,
we’ve done this before,
one through five, one is very much,
five is very little.
And try to answer these questions honestly,
you’d be the only one
seeing them.
And so try to tell the truth about ourselves as we go through this.
Number one, I’m a patient person,
the Scripture has a lot to say about the word patience,
it means long suffering, it means to be able to delay anger,
it means to be able to hang in there with people,
it means to be able to wait in a way that is open to new possibilities and not get frustrated,
not get wrapped up.
Patience, no surprise to anyone who knows me,
is a lifelong struggle
for me.
I do not,
I am not able to circle a high number on this at all.
And so I understand this struggle deeply.
But patience is to be the mark of being Christians.
Whenever the Scripture talks
about what Jesus does in us,
one of the things it consistently says is produces in us an ability
to wait, an ability to be patient and not insist on our own way.
You know, Clint, I think this is
a great place to start because I think this already uncovers a real temptation we might have.
I think some of us,
when we see this,
and we see I’m a patient person,
we think to ourselves,
well, I never feel patient.
And I want to just call that out right away.
I’m not certain that
it’s right, that we set the bar for ourselves,
that we feel patient.
I think rather,
it’s how we live in such a way that we practice patience.
So there’s a difference between feeling a thing
and doing a thing,
right?
So when you’re in a circumstance and you bite your tongue,
you literally keep yourself from saying the thing that comes,
you may not feel like you want to do that,
but in the action of physically stopping,
of saying, no, I’m not going to use those words,
that practice is exactly the kind of spiritual practice that we actually have in mind here.
At the end of the day,
yes,
the goal would be that we would slowly over time have worked into
us more and more of a practice sort of rhythm of patience,
that that would become more and more
second nature to us.
But Clint, there’s some people who I’m not sure that number one looks like,
oh, yeah, I feel patient in that encounter.
I think it’s rather that we’ve practiced living
in such a way that when that circumstance comes,
we’re able to be patient,
we’re able to treat the
other person with some forbearance,
or we’re able to bite back the tongue.
This is a substantial
practice.
And if for you,
patience seems like a far, far off mountain,
maybe you need to reframe
what even patience looks like in your spiritual practice.
Right.
Maybe a way to get there is to ask yourself the question,
would those who know me
be able to call me patient?
Because people who are patient,
the patient people that I know and admire them,
they have a certain openness,
a certain willingness.
It’s not resignation.
It is not giving up.
It is simply the ability to say, well,
let’s give it some time.
Well, let’s see what happens.
Well,
let’s encourage that person.
Yeah, they might not get it,
but let’s continue to be with them in relationship and work with them.
Patience is,
in some ways,
I think you’re exactly right and helpful,
Michael.
In some ways, it is less the particular action
than it is the bent,
the sort of inclination.
And the patient people that I know have an inclination
to hang in there,
whatever their means, whatever that situation may be,
they stay engaged in a way that I think is really admirable.
The word patience means long suffering,
and that’s exactly what it is.
They are willing to endure the uncertainty or not having it be the way that…
they’re able to tolerate that to a high degree.
And I think that is an admirable goal,
one that I fall short of on a regular occasion.
Some of the gift of patience is our ability to
stick with relationship with others in trying times.
It gives us an opportunity to have some
flexibility in the midst of difficult circumstances.
Clearly, that’s been important in a season that’s
been full of anxiety and pressure and inflexibility in our culture.
And our number two here,
I think, goes down that same road.
Can we say by ourselves,
“I insist on doing things my own way”?
And as we come to a question like that,
some of us, by constitution,
we think of what we do as
doing it thoughtfully and always the best way.
Some of us would say,
“There’s not a thing that
I’m going to do that I don’t think is the best way.” And that isn’t, by definition, bad,
but it is certainly a constitutional temptation.
It leads us to look at the world only from our own lens.
We look at it from our own perspective,
and we allow ourselves to define what is best or what
is right or what is good.
And at its worst,
what we end up doing is failing to hear those who
surround us and maybe even at worst failing to account for them.
That sometimes the most
efficient course in any task is the one that has left people out of that task or hasn’t brought
people along or hasn’t loved people along the way.
That we miss the people we’re called to love and
minister to for the task that we’re seeking to accomplish.
And when this happens, friends,
we failed as Christians to live to the higher value,
which is to be those who are bearers of
good news of Jesus Christ to everyone.
So, if we have to have a little bit of a willingness,
a moment here to look and ask,
“Have we become more fixated on my way than on potentially the
many other ways that God has put in front of us?”
Yeah, and I think this is one of those areas,
Michael, that is inherently relational.
In other words, whether it’s a marriage relationship,
whether it’s a work relationship,
whether it’s a project and doing something with someone else.
When we bring with us,
and we probably all,
at some level, like to do things our way because it’s familiar and we probably do it that way
because we think it’s even the best way of doing it.
But when we are enabled to hear someone else,
when we’re unable to say,
“There may be multiple ways of accomplishing this,” or if it keeps that
person more engaged and we get to a decent place,
it doesn’t have to be my way.
I think the ability
to sort of compromise,
to step down even to place second,
which again is a kind of biblical theme,
that idea of putting others ahead of self.
And that can be,
for some of us,
really difficult, particularly very task-oriented people,
very confident people, people who love order and who
bring a sense of,
“There is a right way to do things and we have to do it that way.” I think it
can be a real struggle to say,
“Am I a person who can compromise or am I a person who ends up
working by myself because others generally don’t feel included?
Others don’t generally feel
like they’re a real part of the process and that’s okay with me.” And that would be a sign that I
think that there’s some work to do in that area for those of us that might be able to say that.
The next question here,
Clint, I think is a real warning light on the dashboard.
The next question, number three, I get restless or bored quickly.
We live in a culture that has no time for boredom.
We can fill every second of every moment with some level of entertainment or distraction.
And so,
real moments in our experience of actual boredom are becoming fewer and far between.
And if you’ve ever experienced restlessness, and I don’t just mean like,
“I’m a little bored in this moment.” I
think it’s a kind of a crunched kind of feeling that I’m not comfortable in this rhythm or this
season or this time or my job or this relationship or whatever it is.
That kind of just feeling of
unfittedness for the moment.
You know how much of a struggle this is.
And this is a sign,
I think, if you are experiencing this kind of latent restlessness,
whether or not you’ve been willing
to admit it, if you slow down and you for a moment can really recognize that that’s what you’re
experiencing, then that is for you,
I think, a sign it’s time to take seriously some real
self-reflection and to dig under the surface.
That often is not the thing unto itself.
It’s often not the job that feels like it has gotten into a rut.
It’s often not the relationship itself.
That sometimes gives us occasions to get into the conversation,
but often, most often, that restlessness is deep inside us.
And then that is a moment where we need to begin to ask some questions about,
“Why is it in me?
What is it about this moment that I’m struggling with?”
And we often find some very deep things under the surface if we’re willing to let that metric
be our guide.
I think that this largely falls under the biblical heading of contentment.
And does a restlessness in me,
does a boredom in me,
does a desire to stay active and avoid moments of
reflection or quiet or silence,
does it reflect then a kind of lack of contentment?
I find that in those moments where I have to be busy because I’m afraid not to,
the fear is generally that I
don’t want to face that silence.
There’s maybe some discontent there that I’m perhaps running from.
We live in a culture that loves productivity,
that celebrates busyness, and that doesn’t know what to do with solitude,
with silence,
with reflection.
We find those moments of thoughtfulness kind of scary,
many of us do.
And I think that this is one of those questions.
Yeah,
maybe it is great to be productive,
but if that productivity is hiding
a fear of reflective silence,
then I think we’re out of step with our discipleship because
every spiritual teacher in the history of Christianity has said that we need some
silence and reflection in order to grow.
And if we are keeping that at bay by doing a thousand
things a day at a hundred per minute,
then we’re going to miss that.
Right.
And Clint, you know, that comes to number four here.
I’m generally a happy person.
Generally, we would consider this to be really kind of the reverse of the first question.
If we’re feeling restless or
bored, it’s unlikely that that’s paired with happiness.
The word happy though is maybe a
little bit of a trap because once again,
that could tempt us to believe that’s a feeling word.
The idea that we are people who should walk around even with deep wounds,
potentially we’ve gone through some very dark and difficult seasons,
and that what we need to do is grimace and put on
the appearance of happiness.
That is not what we have in mind here.
No,
I may be joyful is a better
biblical word, but I think the idea here,
Michael, for me at least,
is that am I a person that
typically gets up on a given day and feels good about that day?
Do I not spend a lot of time in
sadness or angry or guilty or disappointed?
Do I bring a kind of general sense of okayness
with the day and my relationships?
I agree 100% happy is a…I find happy to be largely an
unhelpful word as we use it culturally speaking,
but there is in Scripture a kind of bent toward
feeling good,
a kind of bent toward a general sense of what the Scripture would even call
happiness or joyfulness or contentedness.
It’s a positive.
On the whole,
Christians are supposed to lean on the positive end of the scale,
and I think if we find ourselves not doing that,
there’s something for us to think about it there.
Yeah, well, because Clint,
from a Christian perspective,
happiness is not about appearances.
Happiness is about the reception and awareness of God’s love and care for us.
Yeah, which is a great point,
Michael, that happiness is a reaction.
Happiness is not
something we create.
Happiness is our response to what God has done for us.
Right, and so what we mean in that then is if you score a five on this,
in other words, that you do not consider yourself a happy person,
then the thing that causes you to ask in your
spiritual discipleship is have I engaged fully enough in the reminder and promise and faith,
ultimately, is the word that we would use in Jesus Christ and the gift that He has given
for me, right?
Because if we trust that promise,
then happiness will be a byproduct,
for we have been given a gift,
and so that becomes,
as you say, Clint, in that very word,
it becomes a reaction
to a truth that’s already true.
Absolutely, and we kind of purposely juxtaposed question four and five here.
Am I a happy person?
Question four with our next question.
I avoid conflict at all costs,
and if you’re conflict-averse,
in other words, if you don’t like conflict,
you might think that one is a great score here,
that we could easily assume as Christians that not having
conflict is a good thing.
That sounds positive,
and yet,
I think the challenge here is to realize
that there are things in the world and in our faith worth taking a stand over.
There are moments where we must draw a line and say, “Well,
we stand here,” and that,
whatever that is, is beyond the line.
Now, I don’t mean we write people off.
I don’t mean that we judge people.
I mean that there are moments where we have to step up and say,
“We believe this to be
right, and we’re willing to be out front with that.
We’re willing to take that stand and stay
in it,” and that will inevitably create some conflict.
I mean, if we look to Jesus,
Jesus certainly did not live a conflict-free life,
nor is it probably reasonable to think that we can without compromising.
If we bite our tongue instead of proclaiming what is right,
we may have avoided conflict,
but we may not have done it faithfully.
The struggle with conflict,
Clint, is that it is very difficult spiritual work to know
what conflict is rooted in our deepest values and what conflict is us giving in to our own
human temptation to fight.
I want to just really encourage you,
if you’re with us,
that when we look to this and we’re asking questions about what level of conflict do I engage in in my personal
life, one to five here,
not all conflict is equal,
and the only way to discern between them
is I’m going to use the word “wisdom.” It requires the ability to discern would be the
scriptural language, and that is a whole conversation unto itself,
but I will tell you this.
I do not know a single wise person who is quick to speak and who does not consult
others around them, someone who is willing to entertain and to understand the perspectives
of others.
If you find yourself barreling into situations with no conversation or reflection
outside of that time,
and you’re not consulting with other people who you consider to be wise,
that is not a good sign that the conflict that you’re engaging in is healthy spiritual conflict.
That is likely not connected to wisdom.
Now,
that’s a whole other conversation unto itself,
but you’re right, Clint.
We need to be careful to not turn this conversation into
like the quantity of conflict.
Now, there are some times that we need to stand our ground,
but the problem is how often Christians have stood ground that is not deeply connected to
our deepest values or the gospel of Jesus Christ,
but rather things that we’ve sort of determined
for whatever reason that should be important,
that time has showed us that it hasn’t been.
Yeah, it’s very fascinating, Michael.
The scriptural word here is probably peacemakers.
We are called to be bearers of peace and peacefulness,
but the path to that is not
conflict free.
Sometimes it does mean standing up.
And this is one of the,
as I look over the eight questions here,
this is maybe the one that most for me
leans toward middle.
In other words, as I consider the Christian life,
I think a three is the number we aspire to in this question.
We can’t never have conflict
or shouldn’t, nor should we enjoy it and seek it out.
It is to be in that middle place where we seek
to be without conflict except where the faith demands it.
And when it demands it, to be willing
to take the hard stand and say,
“Wait a minute.
I think we have to talk about this.
I think we have
to confront this.
I think we have to have some difficult conversations and sort this out.”
And now the way in which we do that matters.
That’s not done angry and screaming and with lots of
pomp and circumstance, and it’s not about me.
That can go wrong as well.
But I think we have to,
as I look at these numbers,
it seems to me that the place we would perhaps want to land
is the place that allows us to say that we can navigate both sides of the fence. Clint, there’s a way in which this next question helps us determine what kind of conflict
we’re having as well,
because we turn our attention here to question six.
I often think I know more than others.
And when our conflict is rooted in a deep personal sense of righteousness,
that I stand on hallowed ground and that no one else can either understand or
could get to where I’m at,
we are in a very troubled position because it is easy to convince
ourselves that the conflict that we’re in is the most important until we reflect upon the
perspectives of others.
And there’s some people in my life who I’m grateful for who are naturally
good at really looking at the world through other people’s perspective.
In fact, that becomes their danger, that they do that to such a great extent that they lose themselves in the midst of those different perspectives.
If you find yourself over and over and over again making this assumption
that the world is going to hell in a hand basket,
nobody gets anything right,
that if they just came
to you and you could give the answer,
if that’s your core demeanor,
if that’s that basic assumption
that you live with,
that is a sign that you may want to reflect on your current state of humility,
your current ability to see and hear the other voices of the Christian community that surround
you, and that you may be missing some of the voice of Christ for that lack of perspective.
And that’s a tough place to get,
and I think most of us have been there,
but Clint, it brings great fruit.
There’s a lot of reward if we’re willing to engage in that difficult conversation with ourselves.
Yeah, I’m a whiteboard in my office where I write down quotes that matter to me or
that I’m trying to think over for a season.
And recently,
I wrote maybe a couple months ago now,
it is impossible to learn what you think you already know.
And I think this speaks to that,
a kind of arrogance of assuming that my opinion is somehow innately above others,
that I have a superiority.
I mean, we could talk about that as arrogance, perhaps.
But if that’s my bent,
I’m going to miss opportunities to learn,
I’m going to miss opportunities to build relationships,
and there’s simply no way to be open to the movement of the Spirit if I’m firmly convinced
I always know what that is.
And I think Christians are called to a kind of openness,
not a moral flexibility,
but a kind of open-endedness in our life that says,
“I’m willing to listen,
I’m willing to learn,
I’m willing to engage,
and then I can sort through what is best.
Then I can seek discernment.” But when I try to do that based only on self,
then I’m really not practicing
discipleship.
I’m practicing selfishness.
I’m practicing self-protection and self-perseverance,
and I’m practicing ego if we want to get down to the heart of it, I think.
Well, there’s a sense in which we believe that information and knowledge gives us power,
and the real temptation as humans is to believe that if we can acquire that information,
then we can use that power to our advantage.
And Clint, that’s exactly what’s behind this next question here.
I’m likely to pass along the gossip that I hear.
And in the church,
I’m going to make a
pretty bold statement here,
and you can walk this back,
Clint.
I believe that one of the most
insidious forces in a church is gossip.
It is not an accident that Paul includes gossips in a list of sins,
along with murderers,
along with those who are adulterers.
That is a strong thing to
combine in the list,
and I think we consistently underestimate the destructive power like water
chipping away at solid rock.
Gossip over time erodes trust.
It erodes generosity.
It erodes love.
It sucks out of Christian community that really marrow within the bone of what is necessary
for us to be a family of faith.
And we should be very,
very reflective upon the temptation that
comes when we receive information about another person.
Do we objectify that person when we share
that information with others?
Do we treat that person’s life as something that can benefit us
when we’re willing to pass it along?
I’m being very maybe one-sided in this,
Clint, but I think sometimes we look at a thing like gossip and we say,
“Oh, it makes me a little uncomfortable,” but
that’s what everybody does.
I don’t think we should give ourselves that kind of wiggle room.
We should take a question like this very seriously.
Yeah, and this is a hard question to answer,
and maybe a way to get there is to say when you hear something that is unflattering,
whether it’s true or not,
what are the chances it is likely to stop with you,
and what is the likelihood that you’re likely to mention it to someone else?
What is the likelihood that you are going to pass that on to a friend or a family member,
or can you be the
person where that thing stops?
And I think none of us want to think of ourselves as participating in
gossip, because I think we could all admit that it is a kind of poison.
It does taint the waters.
It creates bad for people, and worse,
it doesn’t even do it up front.
It works behind the scenes.
It’s insidious, and it’s kind of deceitful.
And yet,
it happens every day.
And so I think this
might not be a comfortable question for many of us,
but I think it’s an important one.
How likely is it that when you get gossip,
it stops with you?
Or are you a conduit?
Are you likely to pass it on?
Are you a dead end for those things?
Or are you a through way?
And the scripture is clear,
Michael, you’re 100 percent right.
I mean, there is no positive spin on gossip in the New Testament.
It is outside the bounds of how Christians are supposed to live and supposed to act.
We all do it.
We all participate in it.
But the calling not to is crystal clear,
and there’s very little.
Well, no, not little.
There’s no wiggle room in it.
Right.
And sometimes that very gap is the problem,
Clint. Sometimes we realize how far we are away
from from the call that we are to be the ones who who stops that that trend.
And, you know, I think most often gossip is a reflection of our innate desire to have some status or control,
because if we have information that others doesn’t,
that that becomes for us a mechanism
making ourselves feel important or feel included.
But in Christian community,
you don’t need that
to be included by the grace of Christ.
There is nothing that you can add to your life
that is going to make you more welcome.
Instead, it’s about giving up those things,
letting go of the need to know things,
letting go of the need to share them with others,
because ultimately, that’s not going to make you more included.
It’s not going to bring you into the circle.
Rather, it’s going to actually poison that circle.
So instead, when when the gossip
stops with us, then it becomes an opportunity to pull others first.
Yeah, I agree 100%.
Michael, that brings us to the last of our scale of one to five questions.
In some ways, a restatement of question six.
I tend to assume I am right and others are wrong.
I would argue this is slightly different than I think I know more than others.
This has to do
with our ability to listen.
We live in a very strange time where we have access to
almost unlimited information,
and yet,
we often get shallow pieces of it.
I think it is a deep
temptation in our day and age to take part of some information and to think that we have the whole picture,
to take part of a story,
to take part of a statistic,
to take part of a whatever,
and make it normative as if we now somehow know something and that we are right.
And when we do that,
we cut off our ability to listen.
And Christians are to be people who hear,
who listen,
who take in information and who engage people.
We have this strange moment
where it is like everything is a battle and not a conversation.
And I just think
we restated this question in another form because this is really important and really
challenging right now, if we’re going to be honest.
Yeah, Clint, if we’re going to look at the one to five here,
I think this is another one I would
point out as three being a more healthy place on this scale than either one or five because
there are times when you are right,
I mean, that you have the accurate information and you stand
in the right and that should be affirmed.
The problem is once again,
one of demeanor or the
vantage that we come into our conversations.
If that is your innate assumption every time I am right,
and you never consider that you could be wrong,
or we flip that on the other side,
and you believe that you’re always wrong.
That’s, I think, another reflection of not a wholly put
together person right now.
That’s a place that you could potentially use some healing.
All of these, all eight of these are touch points.
They’re little hooks that we ask ourselves and
reflect upon, and then they provide an opportunity to go deeper,
and this is shared in that.
Right, and maybe another way to get there is to say,
“How easily can you admit when you’re wrong?”
And if your knee-jerk response is,
“Well, I don’t know.
I never am.”
I’ve never been there.
We have maybe an indication that I get to do a little work in this area.
So, yeah, we hope these are helpful.
Then we kind of move on to some other questions, and these are,
for the most part,
yes and no, or they’re at least two answer kind of questions.
So, let’s move into this next section.
When things are not going your way,
how often do you get angry or give in to your temper,
often or rarely?
So, how much of a struggle is anger for you?
And Scripture has a mixed voice.
Again,
Scripture says there are some things we should be angry about,
but those things are
relatively small and not what we typically are upset by.
And so,
is anger a road?
Is it a natural
pathway for us?
Have we paved it?
And do we know it well?
And how quickly do we go from one to ten?
That is not a helpful pattern in the Christian life, typically speaking.
You know, this is a question I think a few of these to come are more this way.
I think this is
helpful if you look at it over time.
So, if previously in your life you would have said
that you answered that rarely,
and today you answer it often,
then I think this is an incredibly helpful question,
especially when, for some of us,
anger is a go-to reaction,
and we will always have to process that as part of our Constitution.
But for every single one of us,
there are times in life where anger and frustration become short-circuited,
and we find that happening
much quicker than normal.
And we find ourselves saying words to our spouse,
our children, our co-workers, and we’re like, “Oh my goodness, I have no clue where that came from.”
If that’s the moment that you’re in,
if you’re in an often stage of life when you’re normally in a rarely,
then this is, I think, a very important question and can be a really
fertile place to start asking some questions about why is that the case right now.
So, I think there’s some longitudinal or time effect here,
Klan. We’re almost never,
probably never, at our best when we are angry.
Scripture says that anger does not produce the righteousness of God.
And I think the caution there is,
if we spend a good deal of our time angry,
it is likely disconnecting us from the righteousness
of God, which is the point of our faith, to be connected.
So, let’s go to the next one,
Michael.
How often do you take time to slow down,
reflect, discern the best path forward,
often or rarely?
This is that kind of charge ahead.
Are you thoughtful?
Again, Christians are called to be thoughtful,
not to be necessarily impulsive,
though there’s a time
being impulsive is probably helpful,
but are we kind of bulldozers in the way that we do things?
And I think the idea for Christians in terms of our character is to be people who can take a moment
and think about what would be best here,
not only for myself,
but in regard to others as well.
Right, and that requires what we are asking next.
Do you consider yourself to be a humble person?
This is going to be,
for most of us,
a very hard question to answer.
I know I would struggle with
this.
I’m going to be honest.
I think I would have to confess that there’s parts of me who I don’t
think have reached the level of spiritual humility that I would like to see.
That said,
are we as Christians not striving for perfection,
but rather for the awareness that we are loved in
Christ because of grace and not because of works?
And humility is that spiritual gift that comes as
we practice, recognizing it’s not all about us,
not all about our actions,
and we are going to
fail to slow down.
We’re going to fail to reflect.
We’re going to fail to shortcut anger.
If we
make the assumption that we’re always right,
it’s always about us,
if it’s always centered on self
and not a reflection of humility,
of spiritual humility,
then Clint, these other things are going to be troubled.
So I believe that this is going to be a difficult question to ask,
but I think it’s a necessary question to see the connection to these other things.
Yeah, humility is a huge topic in scripture.
Do I need to be front and center?
Do I need to get
credit?
Do I need affirmation?
Do I need it to be about me?
I think humility undergirds
so much of the Christian life that it would be important to really wrestle with this question,
and it’s intended to be difficult,
and I think that may be telling in its difficulty as we try to answer it.
The next one I think is a really helpful,
important one, Michael, though again, maybe an uncomfortable question.
How often do you find yourself being critical of others, often or rarely?
It is important, I would say even imperative,
that we try to answer this question
honestly, because our criticism of others can sort of give evidence to a kind of judgmentalism
in our own spirits.
If we tend to look at others with a tendency toward looking down on them,
with a tendency toward fault finding and pointing out flaws,
if we’re critical in that sense,
it is very likely,
I would say almost unavoidable,
that we’re going to struggle with being judgmental.
Yeah, I agree,
Clint,
and I think looking at our time and where we’re at,
we have our second page here,
and I think just a glossing over here of these questions,
you know, I’m usually confident in my opinions, get into arguments with others frequently,
I’m a perfectionist, I struggle to be content,
I avoid using foul and rough language.
This is a,
in many ways,
the junk drawer of the
human soul.
You know that place where you put all of that stuff that has no place?
I mean,
really, friends,
the things that we say,
right, the words that we use and the content of it,
the source of that,
our opinions, our knowledge, what we think, whether we’re right or wrong,
our desire to be always perfect or not perfect,
all of this is sort of a broad snapshot of what
does it look like for us to own both our temptation,
our go to, you know, that idea of character,
the thing that’s built into us,
and how are we doing managing it?
How are we doing both being
aware of it and accounting for it in our discipleship?
And this is going to change by the day.
I suspect for most of us,
it’s going to be better in some longer seasons of our faith discipleship than others.
And I hope questions like this,
if you find yourself,
if the conduct of your speech,
if you find yourself being foul,
not just in, you know, swear words, but in the way that you would
talk about other people,
the way you would talk about an institution or,
you know,
maybe you find yourself no longer able to use words of respect for people who are in positions that scripture
calls us to have respect for.
Those kinds of things become moments,
opportunities for us to
dig in deeper, to ask what’s happening or am I filled with anxiety?
Am I filled with anger?
Am I impatient?
Do I feel like I should always get my way?
You know, and each one of these can
be a gateway to that.
Yeah, there are a couple of hidden gems here, I think, Michael,
you know, am I a perfectionist, which again,
seems like a good thing,
but perfectionists can really struggle with grace.
The idea of not needing to be perfect,
the idea of receiving a gift that you don’t deserve,
the idea of being gracious with others,
that can be a very much a wrestling match for perfectionists.
And then to just restate what you said,
I think a good rule of thumb,
if someone heard me speaking,
would they assume that I’m Christian?
And I think that’s a challenge for all of us because we live in different arenas,
we practice, we go to work with people who are different from us and there are, you know,
places where it’s easy to slip into patterns that we may or may not do so intentionally.
But if someone listened to me,
would they assume that I have a faith or that I’m a person of faith?
I think that’s a challenging question for some of us.
And then we really,
I think that’s the bridge.
This last part,
I think those who know me well would say that I am,
and I think this is a helpful
way to enter lots of these conversations.
What is the message that I give?
What is it that my
life and the way that I live says to other people?
Would they say that I’m honest,
soft-spoken, joyful,
stubborn, kind, arrogant?
We might be able to add,
would they say I complain?
Would they say I’m negative?
What the people around me,
what do they see in me?
And does it look sound and function
like Jesus in some way,
shape, or form?
And I think that’s a helpful lens.
You know, Clint,
you’ve said this before,
I think it is very true,
and I think it’s worth repeating,
that we don’t get our obituary written after we die.
It’s written while we live.
And this is not about how other people perceive you.
In other words, this is not about status,
okay?
This is not about do people think that you’re a great person and will invite you to their Christmas party.
That’s a thing that we care about a lot,
but that’s not what we’re asking, right?
We’re asking if you can reflect for a moment on how other people perceive the gospel
in your actual physical life.
What do you think that they see?
Do you think that they see honesty?
Do you think that they see joyfulness?
Do you think they see arrogance?
Do you think they see
kindness?
There’s a lot of blank space under this on your paper here.
I encourage you, write more words.
All of the ones that you think apply,
both maybe you would consider positive and negative.
I mean, this is about reflecting on do others see the gospel in our lives.
Yeah, and I think maybe,
Michael, not just others,
but the others who are closest to you, your spouse,
your children, your coworkers,
your best friends,
the people who see past
the things that you try to show everybody else,
the people that those who know you best would
be able to say,
would they say that you are joyful?
Would they say that you are kind and honest?
I don’t use people as a kind of out there.
This is the mirror that is closest to you.
And I think that makes it the most challenging.
That’s really, really helpful, Clint.
And I think that brings us
maybe to some last words.
I want to encourage you that this is not a practice of evaluation.
This is not a practice of looking at others to see where we fail.
When we ask ourselves about
our attitude and about our demeanor,
that’s by definition relational.
We said that at the outset,
that it requires us to practice some humility to recognize that other people are going to see parts
of our lived life that
both do reflect the gospel and places that don’t.
And if you’re doing this
process with someone, if you didn’t decide that you’re going to involve another person in this process together,
this may be the conversation where that bears the most fruit.
If there’s a kind of trusting, gracious relationship where you could even engage some of these questions to bounce
back off another person and ask,
Hey, what do you experience me to be in three,
four words?
What do you experience me to be?
And how do you see my faith or weaknesses in my character?
What do you experience?
This can be an incredibly valuable tool if we’re able to receive it in a gracious,
generous, constructive way.
Yeah, this isn’t about guilt.
We all have rough spots in our character,
in our demeanor, in our personality.
We all have blind spots.
This is an opportunity to say,
Hey, I think there’s an area here that I could do a little better.
I think this is a chance for me
to invest some time and thoughtfulness and some effort in maybe making an improvement in this
place.
I could be more patient.
I tend to be knee jerk reaction.
I tend to be angry a lot.
I’m going to spend some time thinking about that,
but this is not intended to be a kind of burden.
In fact, just the opposite.
This is intended to hear again that invitation from Jesus to set our burdens down
because his burdens are light and to let go of some of the things that sort of we drag around
with us and that feel heavy to us at times.
So we hope you’ll receive it in that spirit.
We hope there’s something in it that’s helpful.
We hope it points us in a direction that ultimately we feel
like gives us some motivation toward improving our discipleship in an area or two of our life.
And on the whole,
we hope that it helps us all become better witnesses as we seek to live out the faith.
That’s my final word here.
I want to say this just very directly.
And that is these
are some areas of our life where we often find ourselves hitting our head the most often.
If you’re a person who defaults to anger,
it’s likely you have had a lot of experiences with anger.
Or if you’re a person whose first temptation is gossip,
it’s likely that that’s a part of your regular experience.
And because of that,
conversations like this can feel so overwhelming because it feels
like we’re entering territory that we just have no control over.
We speak like Paul and we say,
you know, I try my very best,
but it seems like my every best effort reaches the end and there’s
no good in it.
And friends, I want to encourage you.
You, by the grace of Jesus Christ,
can grow in whatever area that you need to grow in.
It’s not easy.
It requires thought and intent and practice
as all important things in life do.
But I want to encourage you that if you want to grow in any one
of these areas, the gracious, courageous spirit of God lives inside you make small achievable goals
and begin working on it.
That’s the beauty of a process like this is it invites us to a new possibility.
You won’t suddenly never be angry.
You won’t suddenly never be tempted to gossip.
You won’t stop gossip,
right?
That’s not the point.
These are opportunities for us to
make the next step of our discipleship.
And you will be shocked to learn what happens after the
next step and the next step and the next step.
We discover that that long journey takes us to
places we did not even know were possible.
And so if you feel overwhelmed,
I just want to encourage you.
The one who is in you is greater than any obstacle in the way.
Trust him and he’ll take you
to places you can’t imagine.
It’s a good word,
Michael.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you’ll continue to join us as we work through this series.
I’m grateful to have you with us today.
As always,
comments, questions,
and thoughts,
we would love to hear them.
Thanks, friends.