John 5:19-24

00:00:00:16 – 00:00:26:08
Clint Loveall
Hey, guys. Thanks for being with us. Just a reminder. Will be with you tomorrow. Thursday will be off, but, glad to have you with us today as we continue through. John, we are in the 19th verse of the fifth chapter. Jesus moves into a little bit of, a dialog, really kind of a monologue. But essentially the backdrop is that he’s talking with the the religious leaders who have challenged him.

00:00:26:13 – 00:00:47:55
Clint Loveall
And so we pick up that conversation day here in verse 19, Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, the son of the son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the father doing. For whatever the father does, the son does likewise. The father loves the son, shows him all that he himself is doing, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished.

00:00:48:00 – 00:01:05:24
Clint Loveall
Indeed, just as the father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the son gives life to whomever he wishes. The father judges no one, but has given judgment to the son, that all may honor the son, just as they honor the father. Anyone who does not honor the son does not honor the father who sent him.

00:01:05:29 – 00:01:43:03
Clint Loveall
Very truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life. So we stop there. Michael, I think this is a, there’s interesting theology in this passage. Very much so. But I also think this is an interesting snapshot of John, because John is so upfront with his what seminary classes would call Christoph, his understanding of who Jesus is.

00:01:43:08 – 00:02:09:32
Clint Loveall
And whereas the other gospels kind of weave that and peel it back layer by layer, John very much just puts that on display front and center. And so here we get some of the strongest statements we have seen, and we’ll see, especially compared to Matthew, Mark and Luke, about this idea of the two natures of Jesus, that that the father and the son are one.

00:02:09:32 – 00:02:29:18
Clint Loveall
What what we would call the those two persons of the Trinity. And John has Jesus saying that very clearly, if you see the father and what the father is doing, that’s the son, what the son is doing, just as the father raises the dead so the son can do it. If you don’t believe in the son, you don’t believe in the father who sent the son.

00:02:29:29 – 00:03:02:52
Clint Loveall
And keep in mind that the backdrop here is that Jesus is talking to religious leaders, what John calls the Jews. And this is he. He is, I suppose, at some level, Michael, you could say he’s defending himself, but more so he’s simply teaching. He’s just stating the reality of who he is. And I do think that adds to a unique flavor in John, which is far more up front with those kind of theological points.

00:03:03:01 – 00:03:34:01
Michael Gewecke
I agree with you. I do think the right way to understand this is in the teachings. Jesus is offering a lesson. But let’s be very clear here. It is a very confrontational lesson and content. Yeah, yeah, it’s set in such a way that Jesus knows both the truth of what he’s saying, but also the veracity with which it will be met in the negative that you will be responded to like a, like a theological virus.

00:03:34:01 – 00:03:57:03
Michael Gewecke
And I think it’s important to look here, verse 18, this is the end of the study yesterday. But you gotta remember the way that we do these studies. You know, segmenting them has a downside. And some of that is we can get chunked into sections. This flows directly from one to the other, thereby making himself equal to God by calling God his own father.

00:03:57:03 – 00:04:39:07
Michael Gewecke
Right. And then the immediate transition is into this lesson. I truly, I tell you, the son can do nothing on his own. Only way he sees the father doing so. This teaching is really fleshing out. It’s giving us insight into the background of what Jesus has done with this miracle, with this man at the pool. But the idea that Jesus is making himself equal to God, that this is where John is so distinctive and you’ve said it, and this is just another aspect of what you said, that at the end of the day, there is no moment in John in which we need to go from revelation to revelation when we need to sort of

00:04:39:07 – 00:05:07:59
Michael Gewecke
like build the foundation and then build the first level and then build the second, which we’re chapter five. We’ve had John the Baptist witnessing to who Jesus is. He’s testified to the truth. And here about what three four miracles in Jesus is already claiming perfect divinity, the perfect sonship, equality with God, and also perfect humanity. And he’s also saying, you’re going to see signs that are unbelievable, that are compelling.

00:05:08:04 – 00:05:36:49
Michael Gewecke
And yet it’s not the signs that is the revelation that this is John in its essence. And I think it’s what makes this book either so helpful for people or challenging. And I’ve heard both. I’ve heard some say, Clint, the first gospel that you should read is John, because it shows you who Jesus is. Well that’s true, I’ve heard others say the last gospel you should read is John, because it’s deep and complex and it’s full of content and meanings.

00:05:36:54 – 00:06:00:19
Michael Gewecke
I think that’s also true. I think this story exemplifies that in a powerful way. And now this teaching just makes it abundantly clear. John wants us to know one thing that John believes is 100% accurate and theologically true. And also I it’s just built into this idea of the revelation of Christ, which is the central theme that John’s going to show the whole time.

00:06:00:32 – 00:06:26:18
Clint Loveall
So it’s I want to spend a little time unpacking this, because I think there’s a sense in which this could be, misunderstood, or if I misstated it, I wouldn’t want to lead anyone down the wrong path. But I do think there’s a sense Michael. And tell me if you agree with this, John is far less. I won’t say interested.

00:06:26:18 – 00:07:06:34
Clint Loveall
John is less focused on Jesus the man. Right. We don’t have a genealogy. We don’t have a birth story. We don’t really have temptation story. We we don’t have those things that emphasize Jesus, humanity. Now, having said that, Jesus is clearly a man. He’s clearly walking the earth. He’s clearly the embodiment, the human embodiment of God. But whereas the other gospels take steps to tell us stories of Jesus, the man who is divine, and John given those choices, he seems like he’s always going to fall on the other side of the fence.

00:07:06:34 – 00:07:42:11
Clint Loveall
He’s always going to to paint a picture of Jesus’s theological reality as the Son of God, as the Incarnate One. And so here, even to go so far as to say, if you don’t honor the son, you don’t honor the father. And if you don’t believe in the son, you don’t understand the father, right? That, that that John so emphasizes Jesus and God’s oneness, that to disregard Jesus is to disregard God the Father.

00:07:42:16 – 00:08:12:18
Clint Loveall
And, I think that in context that that all of the Gospels argue for the divinity of Jesus. All of the Gospels paint that picture. But that’s John’s go to. Those are the primary colors that he uses in every scene. And this, you know, again, as you mentioned, we’re not even through the fifth chapter and and we’re in, you know, Jesus class 2.0 this this is not introduction stuff.

00:08:12:18 – 00:08:35:51
Clint Loveall
This is right going to the heart of the theological, components and, and, material about who Jesus is, not in some generic sense, but as an extension of the father. And I just think that you have to understand that that’s just that that is a distinctive of this gospel.

00:08:35:56 – 00:09:19:04
Michael Gewecke
Well, and Clint, it’s impossible to un right. John, in our minds, it’s a critical part of the gospel canon. But this book serves an important purpose throughout the history of the church, because that this book gets rid of the idea that for a while was actually circular circling, excuse me, in the early church about this idea. You know, maybe Jesus was just a guy with some really good ideas and that that, you know, later he kind of came to have a higher sense of his purpose or, you know, that maybe Jesus and his disciples sort of later kind of came to this idea of, hey, let’s, let’s create a narrative and spin it up.

00:09:19:04 – 00:09:48:34
Michael Gewecke
It. John serves an important anchoring purpose in the canon of the four Gospels, because as John tells the story of Jesus from day one in his ministry is revealing himself as the fully divine Son of God, co-equal here, of course, miracles happen when God is at work in the world, right? I mean, that’s just a natural part, but the people who are looking at the miracles are missing the revelation.

00:09:48:34 – 00:10:16:06
Michael Gewecke
And John is just able to encapsulate that truth with a kind of speed and a kind of depth that I don’t think arguably we ever see the, like kind of content in, say, the gospel of Mark there. Jesus is fully divine in Mark. That’s there, but not with the emphasis and not with the deliberative teaching. There’s a there’s a kind of gift here.

00:10:16:06 – 00:10:43:36
Michael Gewecke
And you might ask yourself, you know, why are you all spending so much time on this? Let’s keep going. I think the merit of going slow and reminding ourself of this Clint, is to remember that what Jesus claims to be is not just a spiritual teacher. And this gets repeated often in culture, this idea that you know, well, Jesus, he had some good ideas.

00:10:43:40 – 00:11:09:52
Michael Gewecke
He did he had some good ideas. But if you read John, it’s clear neither what Jesus taught as its record in this book nor how John has edited this book, neither of those supports the idea that that’s all that Jesus thought he was doing. He he had a sense of connection to God that that was repellant to the Jewish leaders at the time.

00:11:10:04 – 00:11:28:55
Michael Gewecke
And John wants it to be inescapably clear. The question that’s posed to us is, what do we believe about who Jesus is? And and Jesus’s teaching is going to be single, focused, and clear. The question is, will we see the revelation that way in our reading of it?

00:11:29:09 – 00:11:53:09
Clint Loveall
Yeah, I think you’re right, Michael. I all, all of the gospels paint a picture of Jesus divinity. That’s a part of all of them. But where as Matthew, Mark and Luke would leave some wiggle room to ask questions, Mark slams all those doors shut. I mean, or, John. Excuse me, John just slams those doors shut on those arguments.

00:11:53:09 – 00:12:21:07
Clint Loveall
And, therefore, I think part of the help of this book has been the clearest statement of those kind of theological truths, the divinity of Christ. And and remember, we said this in our introduction. Remember the gospel of John doesn’t include parables. So even the sense that Jesus is kind of a teacher more often than not. In the Gospel of John, when Jesus is teaching, it’s about himself.

00:12:21:07 – 00:12:50:45
Clint Loveall
It’s it’s about the work that God is doing in him and through him and what he offers people by doing that work. So, that that kind of almost single minded focus on the relationship between God and Jesus and the and the the sameness, the character of both. I think is really helpful. I don’t know, that’s a good question.

00:12:50:45 – 00:13:14:44
Clint Loveall
I don’t know that you start with the Gospel of John, but you would certainly want to have it there if you had if you wanted to look into what the Gospels say about who Jesus is, I think you have to balance. I just think so much of that is so strongly stated in John that it’s very helpful to have on the table with you.

00:13:14:49 – 00:13:34:42
Michael Gewecke
There’s a really subtle shift that’s happening here towards the end of the passage that we’ve read here, that I just want to point it out to you. It’s it starts with the negative and that leads to the positive. So anyone in verse 23, anyone who does not honor the son does not honor the father who sent him. Okay?

00:13:34:42 – 00:14:07:16
Michael Gewecke
It’s not that that’s in the negative. Now we turn to the positive, but very truly, I tell you or sincerely I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life. Those two, any ones are absolutely critical. They are so important that you catch that there’s an anyone who rejects and does not honor the revelation of God in Jesus Christ, the one who doesn’t see Jesus for who he is.

00:14:07:21 – 00:14:39:01
Michael Gewecke
Then there’s the anyone who both sees and believes. And that is a powerful teaching tool that Jesus is using. And I would argue also, John is giving to us in this particular way. He’s recounting Jesus’s words so that we can put ourselves in the moment of the anyone and wonder to ourselves, am I the honor or am I the, the, the anyone who honors or doesn’t honor?

00:14:39:10 – 00:15:09:41
Michael Gewecke
Or am I the one who sees and believes, the one who then is given eternal life and the community that receives this book? They answer that question enthusiastically. We believe, John. We believe he’s the one. And. And what’s incredible about how John tells this story is it’s not just about the anyone gathered there. It’s left open so that we can enter into the scene so that we can cast ourselves in that question of which anyone am I?

00:15:09:41 – 00:15:20:15
Michael Gewecke
And that’s not accidental. And I think it is a powerful way for the Gospels to really reach in to our present moment and to engage us with our faith right now.

00:15:20:15 – 00:15:52:57
Clint Loveall
And I think there’s another chapter to that, too, given that we’ve just recently seen stories about a Samaritan woman, a possible Gentile male official, and then a long time, 38 year affected, invalid, I think it’s, those are reminders that John here does mean anyone. When Jesus says anyone, he doesn’t mean Jewish religious people. He doesn’t mean Pharisees.

00:15:52:57 – 00:16:16:58
Clint Loveall
He he he truly, as we’ve already seen, evidence in the book, means that whoever puts their faith in me will come to eternal life. And I think, you know, in the background, John has already been making that case for anyone. Truly does mean anyone that that’s not a there aren’t walls on that statement. There aren’t there aren’t parameters.

00:16:16:58 – 00:16:34:03
Clint Loveall
It’s if you if you come to Christ in belief, Christ offers you what you inherit through that belief. And that applies to anyone who would do it. And I think that’s that’s a that’s a powerful message here, a subtle one, but powerful.

00:16:34:08 – 00:17:02:22
Michael Gewecke
There’s also just a really quick note here at the very end of this, verse 24 does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life. This is a really difficult kind of language that we we even today, scholars are going to try to parse exactly what’s happening there. Clint. People who want to read John literally are going to be frustrated all of the time, because clearly, no one in this moment that Jesus is teaching this, this isn’t a resurrection story per se.

00:17:02:31 – 00:17:36:00
Michael Gewecke
This is a spiritual teaching, but it is a resurrection story at the same time. There’s depths and layers, and there’s so much richness in Jesus’s teaching as John chronicles it. For us, it means if you’re reading John and you’re getting neatly packaged things with bows on them, you’ve probably not heard the depth of it yet. And I just point out to say, here he but has passed from death to life, has a rich, rich, complex, spiritual, physical, relational, even kind of meaning to it.

00:17:36:05 – 00:17:43:57
Michael Gewecke
And and John just drops that in and it’s going to frustrate anyone who tries to sort of boil it down to this is the simple thing. Yeah.

00:17:43:57 – 00:18:09:27
Clint Loveall
If you’re trying to carve that down to the core, I think you’re going to miss it. Does John mean literal death and life? Yes. Does he also mean living? Is belief in Christ and not believing in Christ? Is some sort of dying? Yes. Does he mean the experience of death and life? Yes, he means all of that. For for him, that’s all encapsulated in what it means to believe in Christ.

00:18:09:27 – 00:18:21:01
Clint Loveall
And I think if you try to parse that out and separate it, you’re going to forfeit that that big, albeit messy idea that John brings to the table when he says those things.

00:18:21:14 – 00:18:36:18
Michael Gewecke
Yeah, I think big anesthesia. Good sort of key closing word for us here today. This book has so much to offer. And at some point, it’s going to leave us with a little bit of all of those ingredients left out. And I think that that’s exactly what Jesus intended.

00:18:36:18 – 00:18:55:19
Clint Loveall
But don’t you think? I mean, again, John says life and he just means Jesus. And if you want to try and pin him down on. What do you mean? You just I mean, Jesus, I yeah, I mean, he he doesn’t feel the need to make that smaller because of, of how powerful I think he understands it to be.

00:18:55:31 – 00:19:16:21
Michael Gewecke
I what you said there was subtle. So I make sure that we all hear it, though. Clint, you can’t dissect the living thing and yet still be alive. And I think what’s very clear is John wants us to know that life is Jesus. It’s that’s all. It’s a living being, that Jesus is the way, the truth and life we’re going to see both.

00:19:16:21 – 00:19:17:44
Clint Loveall
Now and later.

00:19:17:49 – 00:19:30:01
Michael Gewecke
Yes. And don’t try to reduce it to something else. Okay. Thanks for being with us here today. Like this video if you found it helpful, subscribe. So you stick with us as we study tomorrow. And remember, not Thursday and we’ll see you all again real soon.

00:19:30:01 – 00:19:30:36
Clint Loveall
Thanks everybody.