In this video, Clint Loveall and Michael Gewecke continue their study through the Gospel of Luke, focusing on Chapter 17. They explore various teachings of Jesus, including the importance of not causing others to stumble and the challenging act of forgiveness. They discuss the context and different perspectives provided by the gospel writers, highlighting the depth of grace and faith required in the life of a disciple. The video concludes with a reflection on the concept of servant-hood and the expectations placed on followers of Jesus. Join Clint and Michael as they delve into these thought-provoking passages and uncover the lessons they hold for us today.
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Transcript
00:00:00:32 – 00:00:37:28
Clint Loveall
Everybody. Welcome back. Thanks for joining us again as we continue through the Gospel of Luke into the 17th chapter today. And I’m not sure what you would I don’t know how you. My Bible calls this some sayings of Jesus, Michael. And I don’t know how you’d label this anything else. This is kind of a catch all. Luke has this way of taking things that in other gospels are comprised in sections, or maybe have some intro and explanation above and below them.
00:00:37:33 – 00:01:03:40
Clint Loveall
And it this is a section that feels like Luke just had a bunch of that stuff and said, Well, I need to get it in there. And so he kind of mashed it together. So we’re a little bit all over the place. I’ll just warn you as we go into it. But let’s start here. Verse one, Chapter 17 Jesus said to the disciples occasions for stumbling are bound to come, but woe to anyone by whom they come.
00:01:03:45 – 00:01:30:27
Clint Loveall
It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. Then for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble. Be on guard. Let’s stop there, Michael. Just. Here’s a great example. In the other gospels, this is a thing Jesus says after he has had a moment with children, he said, Blessed are those who receive the kingdom.
00:01:30:28 – 00:01:51:11
Clint Loveall
If you can’t receive the kingdom like children, you can’t be in it. And then he says, Woe to those who would harm a little one here. It just hangs on its own. He says, One of these little ones, we don’t even know who one of the little ones is. Luke has just taken that that thing that Jesus has said, and he’s listed it here.
00:01:51:16 – 00:02:08:30
Clint Loveall
However, the point remains a warning against those who would lead others astray, a warning against those who would hurt other people. And this is a theme that’s going to run through a few of these early verses, that connection to others.
00:02:08:34 – 00:02:45:09
Michael Gewecke
That is maybe a thing that we shouldn’t take for granted. Not everyone knows that different gospel writers do utilize Jesus teachings in different contexts, and therefore they provide a different light or perspective or lens, depending on what metaphor you want to use. It gives us a different way of seeing what Jesus meant by that teaching. And I think that this is a really interesting example of that, Clint, because in the other gospels you might read this section to be evidence of Jesus talking about children, that being a reflection of their age, relative lack of importance in society.
00:02:45:14 – 00:03:06:12
Michael Gewecke
Remember that in our study yesterday when we had the whole story of Abraham and we have this idea of the rich person set against the poor person Lazarus that puts this teaching in real conjunction with the idea of the little one. We might get a sense there of the little one is the person who is left behind, the person without privilege or power.
00:03:06:12 – 00:03:32:56
Michael Gewecke
The person like Lazarus, who’s been passed over in life by those who have means and ability. Not suggesting that that’s a reinterpretation of what Jesus is teaching, but just to say, oftentimes the gospel writers do this. They’ll give us a saying or teaching of Jesus to put it in a different context than the other gospel writers. And it does help us to see that there’s a variety of lights that can be cast upon it.
00:03:32:56 – 00:03:51:34
Michael Gewecke
And I actually don’t think that’s competitive. I don’t want to go too long on this, but remember that Jesus taught all throughout Galilee. He taught all over and he taught numerous times. And so the idea that he would only use a lesson one time or that it would only have one context or that, that seems to me rather reductive.
00:03:51:39 – 00:04:14:55
Michael Gewecke
I think the more fair assumption is not only do the gospel writers want to portray Jesus within a compelling story for the people that’s being written, but I do think there’s also a richness and diversity in Jesus’s teachings themselves that they’re drawing from. Jesus taught these things in many ways to many people, and the gospel writers are helping to catch some of the different senses of what he meant, what he taught.
00:04:15:00 – 00:04:41:06
Clint Loveall
Yeah, it may be overanalyzing, but it does feel like it when you get to a gospel like Luke. Luke excels at the storytelling parts where Jesus is really digging into a parable like we’ve just seen the parable of the Prodigal Son. Even as strange as it is, the parable of the dishonest manager that we talked about, Luke is really good at layering things.
00:04:41:06 – 00:05:10:46
Clint Loveall
He’s really good at telling stories and dealing with narratives. And then it is if he also has these moments where he wants to include things Jesus said, but they don’t have for him a narrative context. So he just kind of says, Well, this time Jesus talked to his disciples and he said this and this and this and this, and those things come across much more blunt, much more direct, much less flowery or layered.
00:05:10:51 – 00:05:37:21
Clint Loveall
They are in some ways challenging at times, and it’s surprising how often Luke can just in one or two verses as opposed to many verses of story. How would just one or two verses can lay something out? That’s incredibly challenging. And I think that’s what we’re experiencing here as we continue on. So then verse three Be on your guard.
00:05:37:26 – 00:06:07:43
Clint Loveall
If another disciple sins, you must rebuke the offender. And if there’s repentance, you must forgive. And if the same person sins against you seven times a day and turns back to you seven times and says, I repent, you must forgive. So again, just a short passage here, but a deeply challenging one. The nature of the responsibility of forgiveness for a disciple.
00:06:07:48 – 00:06:39:18
Clint Loveall
Now we have to balance this. Jesus is not saying hang in there with people who abuse you or take advantage of you or those kind of things. But what what Luke is giving us here is a very disturbing look at the depth of grace that Jesus expects in the life of of a disciple, of a follower. If it happens seven times in a day and that person repents, you clean the slate, you start over with them, you must forgive.
00:06:39:32 – 00:06:46:32
Clint Loveall
This is a this is a deeply challenging word, I think, for most of us.
00:06:46:37 – 00:07:11:24
Michael Gewecke
So I actually think that the way that we protect ourselves from attacks like this is we often choose to take a section like this and make it overly literal. In other words, I think one of our temptations is to say, well, that I don’t want to forgive or forgiving is hard. And clearly Jesus doesn’t mean that I’m supposed to forgive.
00:07:11:34 – 00:07:38:10
Michael Gewecke
You know, every infraction, no matter how big, when these people are taking advantage of me or when it is this horrible relationship and we give ourself an offer. I think what is being very clearly taught here is that in the face of true repentance, which means to actually turn to actually desire reconciliation, we’re not talking about someone who is seeking their own ends, a person who’s holding a person captive emotionally or physically.
00:07:38:15 – 00:08:05:57
Michael Gewecke
Yes, there are extremes that this is not intended to include, but we take it so literally as to say, well, because it obviously doesn’t mean that it doesn’t apply to me. And the truth is, forgiveness is ridiculously hard. In fact, we’ve recorded a few conversations about the spiritual discipline of forgiveness, about choosing forgiveness, even in the face of the infraction, even in the face of the challenge within our own souls.
00:08:06:02 – 00:08:29:49
Michael Gewecke
That is an unbelievably tenuous and difficult journey to wake up and decide forgiveness will be my spiritual discipline and choice today. And, you know, Jesus, in a saying like this, makes it absolutely clear that that is a core and essential part of the Christian faith. And make no mistake about it, as we’re going to move on in just a second, the disciples respond, increase our faith.
00:08:29:54 – 00:08:35:24
Michael Gewecke
I mean, that’s not entirely accidental. I mean, Luke knows the force of words like that.
00:08:35:36 – 00:09:12:22
Clint Loveall
Yeah. So, I mean, jump in there. The Apostle said to the Lord, Increase our faith, and the Lord replied, If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, be uprooted and planted in the sea and it would obey you. And I think your point, Michael, and what’s telling is that faced with the challenge to forgive somebody multiple times, to forgive somebody continually as they repent, the disciples seem to be met with their own inability and they say, increase our faith.
00:09:12:23 – 00:09:40:35
Clint Loveall
In other words, how could we do that? How is that possible? Increase our faith. And here again, Jesus, in just a couple verses takes what is a parable in other gospels? What gets more attention in Matthew and and Jesus says, Well, if you had faith, even to a small degree, you could do large things. And so rather than comforting the disciples, Jesus just further challenges them.
00:09:40:35 – 00:09:49:58
Clint Loveall
And that’s kind of the theme of this section as we move toward a not easy conclusion. But we I think that’s what we see in part here.
00:09:50:00 – 00:10:15:14
Michael Gewecke
Michael Yeah, and I don’t want to beat this into the ground at all, but I do want to I feel compelled to point this out as we encounter texts like this that this type of teaching is used in was when I was a child, used to exemplify the idea that the Christian life is about gaining more faith. If you could just get more faith, get your hand around more faith and you’re going be able to do bigger things, right.
00:10:15:14 – 00:10:34:10
Michael Gewecke
That idea, if you have the faith, you can speak to the thing and the thing will happen. And then the teaching or the lesson from that kind of reading of this text is that you can do bigger, better, you can be richer and stronger. And what’s fascinating is and to your point, this is connected to the idea of forgiving.
00:10:34:10 – 00:10:57:37
Michael Gewecke
Don’t let that go. That the act of forgiving is the preceding lesson to the act of exercising faith. And that that’s not accidental. That’s really important that you keep in mind that, in other words, this isn’t about worldly wealth, power and privilege, but this is about the idea that there are some spiritual tasks that are beyond our ability to do ourselves.
00:10:57:39 – 00:11:18:49
Michael Gewecke
And those moments forgive. We have to reach out down deep, and the prayer of our heart is God, give me faith that help me God meet me where I can’t go. Because anybody who’s lived in those hard places knows that we meet the end of ourselves and that’s where we discover that Jesus Christ is already been there and just carrying us forward.
00:11:18:54 – 00:11:51:21
Clint Loveall
It’s not a complement to the history of Christians that we have often taken a verse which is given as the answer How can I find the faith to forgive someone repeatedly? How can I find the faith to be gracious? How can I find the faith over and over again to give someone forgiveness and mercy as I’ve received? And we’ve turned that into a how can I get what I want in life?
00:11:51:21 – 00:12:36:51
Clint Loveall
Or that getting what I want in life should be some kind of reward for my faith or that faith would be a pathway to to success and wealth. And Luke helps us here by keeping this context together. The quest for faith in the disciples question is the quest to live the kind of life that Jesus calls them to a life of forgiveness, a life of constant grace, and they know within themselves that that’s going to take supernatural help, as do I think we all, when we’re confronted with it, as we move to the conclusion here, these are tough verses.
00:12:36:55 – 00:12:57:49
Clint Loveall
Part of that is the context, part of that’s the culture. These are just out of step with with our current world. So let me read them. We’ll try to clear them up a little bit. Who among you would say to your slave who has just come in from plowing or tending sheep in the field, Come here at once and take your place at the table?
00:12:57:54 – 00:13:18:23
Clint Loveall
Would you rather not say to him, Prepare supper for me? Put on your apron and serve me while I eat and drink later. You can eat and drink. Do you think do you think the slave for doing what was commanded? So you also, when you have done all that you were ordered to do, say we are worthless slaves.
00:13:18:23 – 00:13:45:00
Clint Loveall
We’ve done only what we ought to have done. I wonder. I’m beginning to wonder if Luke gives us more troubling language than I initially suspected. My God, this idea that Luke ends with the I with the thought that we should evaluate ourselves as worthless slaves gets in the way. And this seems like such a harsh passage, right? The slave comes in.
00:13:45:12 – 00:14:15:16
Clint Loveall
You’re not going to serve the slave. The slave is going to serve you. You are the master. And it’s a hard way for us to get there. But the idea is clearly here. God is the master. We are the servants. Servants don’t get thanked for doing what you’re supposed to do. That’s your job. That’s your task. So don’t pat yourself on the back.
00:14:15:21 – 00:14:38:21
Clint Loveall
Move yourself forward by being conscious of what you still need to do and what you lack and where you fall short. This is this is a very sharp way to get to that point, Michael. This is just one of those texts that feels like being thumped a little bit.
00:14:38:25 – 00:15:00:37
Michael Gewecke
Yeah, because let’s be honest, I don’t think any one of us relishes the theme of servant hood. And I agree with you that there are cultural barriers between us and a text like this. Certainly we need to be very careful in light of our historical and even modern global context to be talking about slavery in any form of a positive light.
00:15:00:37 – 00:15:25:28
Michael Gewecke
But we have to remember that in the first century that the experience of slavery was very different than what we know, and that needs to be teased out. And that’s worthy of another conversation. But Jesus does talk about the process of faith as submitting to the master of being those who find it in the least ness, an invitation to the greatness that’s the inversion of the Kingdom of God that’s happening here.
00:15:25:28 – 00:16:00:25
Michael Gewecke
And I’m not going to even attempt to dispel some of the difficult aspects of a text like this. I’m not going to try, you know, put a candy coating over it. But it’s worth noting that there is a kind of teaching here that calls the Pharisees, the leaders, the people who are lifted up and calls them to the act that ultimately they’re called to, which is the one of putting themselves in position of the one with the job to do and not the one who lords it over others.
00:16:00:25 – 00:16:31:07
Michael Gewecke
And and whether or not that dispels the problems of the text, I don’t think it does, and nor should we pursue that. But I do think we’re often uncomfortable. My point is we’re often uncomfortable with the idea that the faith demands something of us. And texts like this make it clear that Jesus is teaching includes things that he expects the faith to demand, and that that’s a fair demand, that that that that’s a job that should be expected of people who follow in his kingdom.
00:16:31:12 – 00:16:47:09
Michael Gewecke
And that discomfort should land on us sometimes and we should just know something is expected and that something is often a lowering before it’s a raising. And I think a text like this has that at its center, if we’re able to hear it.
00:16:47:18 – 00:17:06:55
Clint Loveall
Yeah, So two things. And I’m trying to figure out which is the right way to go. I think I’ll go this way. But my family kind of got this idea, and this is no disrespect to families who did other things. I had friends whose parents would compensate them for good grades if they got an A, they got ten bucks.
00:17:06:55 – 00:17:25:15
Clint Loveall
If they got to be, they got five bucks. You know, I had other friends who would do household chores and get paid for those. And that seemed like a great arrangement to me. So as a kid, I went back to mom, grandma, and said, Hey, let’s let’s talk about my grades. I’ll get better grades, Let’s.
00:17:25:15 – 00:17:25:42
Michael Gewecke
Make a deal.
00:17:25:44 – 00:17:50:42
Clint Loveall
You you pay me or it’s my job to mow the yard and shovel the driveway. Let’s talk what that’s worth. And the response was, Why would we pay you for something you’re supposed to do anyway, right? And so my family, it would have been all on this idea, right? That. No, you’re not. You’re doing what you’re expected to do.
00:17:50:47 – 00:18:32:20
Clint Loveall
You don’t get extra credit for what’s expected of you. Now, having said that, I think it helps to remember that this is what we’re listening in on is a in in the family discussion. Verse one Jesus said to his disciples and then he says, If another disciple sins against you, and then at the end, this business very strong language to them, this is Jesus and the inner circle having a what we kind of call come to Jesus meeting, and Jesus is speaking bluntly to them about what it means that they are in their role.
00:18:32:20 – 00:18:52:45
Clint Loveall
Now, having said that, we come later and listening to this and there is a word in it for us as well. But I do think it helps to remember that this isn’t Jesus preaching from a mountaintop to everybody. This is Jesus saying very hard things to those he trusts to be able to hear it.
00:18:52:49 – 00:19:15:14
Michael Gewecke
Yeah. And I think we’re comforted by the image of the Savior who goes to make room for us. It goes to make a place for us. I think it’s more challenging. The image of the master who has expectations of how we’re faithful in the field where we’ve been planted, that we do what we’ve been called to do. And there are other parables that track that theme.
00:19:15:14 – 00:19:37:12
Michael Gewecke
By the way, the Parable of the Vineyard, where you have the vineyard workers, some who work all day, and some who come at the end of the day in the graciousness of the owner of the vineyard who pays them. That’s a very challenging parable. It’s the core message of it is some people are going to work harder and their reward is not going to be higher or greater than anyone else.
00:19:37:12 – 00:20:06:30
Michael Gewecke
And I think here this idea that we are called to be those who serve and we’re called of those who put on the mantle of servant hood is a very, very important theme. And I would say maybe an important antidote in our current cultural moment in America. Certainly where there’s this idea of I’m going to take for myself might makes right the the stronger and sharper the rhetoric, the better it is.
00:20:06:30 – 00:20:28:52
Michael Gewecke
And I think that that cuts exactly against the kind of humility lowering servant hood, being able to rest under the master as we see Jesus teaching here. And even if it’s a difficult lesson that shouldn’t get in the way of us hearing it, I think we should sit with it a little bit because it has something to teach us.
00:20:28:57 – 00:20:47:12
Clint Loveall
Yeah, I think it’s a very challenging passage, you know, forgive as often as need be. Well, how do we do that? Well, with a little faith. And don’t pat yourself on the back when you do it, because that’s what it means to follow Jesus. So a blunt challenge today for all of us.
00:20:47:16 – 00:21:04:18
Michael Gewecke
Thanks for being with us for that blunt challenge. We would love for you to join us, of course, as we continue the study tomorrow. Be blessed until that time. Give the video a light to help others find this difficult teaching that may help them in their own study. Subscribe to stick with us along this study in the studies that go with it.
00:21:04:22 – 00:21:05:49
Michael Gewecke
Until tomorrow, be blessed.
00:21:05:51 – 00:21:06:30
Clint Loveall
Thanks everybody.